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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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yuria hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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Richard it's show number 30 it isn't

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even the birds outside a habitat is

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celebrating they are singing with joy at

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our achieving our accomplishment of

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getting through 29 complete skeptic

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zones and arriving here we have in fact

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that i like your studio step and i must

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say these windows out to the trees and

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it's nice and natural easy those birds

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yeah and then fame that dissing my

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hearings not good cuz i've played rock

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and roll for many years ah ah got

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tinnitus so yes it's a struggle but i

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could i can just take it I can I

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remember thanks for joining me again in

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your studio oh that's wonderful to be

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here it is it's a nice to do and of

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course show number 34 the 15th of may

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and a great show now normally of course

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on these shows every second week we have

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dr. Ricci yes we do she's been and she's

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been working extra hard lately so she

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has investigative journalist the machine

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has and because she did to dr. a cheese

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in a row she's having a bit of a rest

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this week ah she grew her she deserves a

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bit of homeopathic remedy and stuffed

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absolutely out here having the old Reiki

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you're gonna break here yeah yeah yeah

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but for the crystal healing that'll be

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good yeah and so what are we going to do

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in her place that's it the show's over

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oh ok well that's Bernie goodbye right

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no we better do something Carly sure

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we've got a great interview with an

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author UK author Bruce M hood now he's

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written a book called super sense now

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let me put a question to you if you were

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given the chance to wear a nice jacket

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yeah someone said you can wear this nice

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jacket in fact you can have it it's free

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you can have it and it fits you

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perfectly it did belong to a murderer

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but you can have it anyway oh I see aw

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sounds pretty creepy Richard yeah it's

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pretty creepy here but I probably would

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you probably would yes mmm so if

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somebody offered you a house a great

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house at a cut right cut rate price but

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it was where some people were murdered

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like free Peep or something would you

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buy the house uh if it was thoroughly

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cleaned yeah yes I sleep well these are

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the sort of the questions that Bruce M

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hood has been investigating and Kyle

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Easter just will interview him and

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that's coming up that's quite

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interesting because there

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slee right near my place just down the

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road there was a house where where three

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people got murdered and it was terrible

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because the the real estate agent didn't

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didn't tell the people that bought it

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and they only found out later and after

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they found out they actually won a court

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case to get their money back yeah

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because they couldn't bear living in

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their amazing and and the real estate

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agent should have actually told them so

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there you go you go there you go super

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senses the name of the book um now o our

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good friend Steve Roberts from Victoria

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who's the new editor of the skeptic

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magazine Oh as a matter of magnet he

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came up for a visit and he dr. H and I

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went for a stroll around a graveyard ah

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what's all this spooky stuff on show

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number 30 we got jacket jackets of

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murderers and gravy yeah it's getting a

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bit what I'll get chills are the dermis

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fired or it will all make sense when we

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get that actually a commentary on

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vaccination because vaccinations been on

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the skeptic zone for the last couple of

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episodes dr. rachy even appeared on the

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skeptics guide to the universe podcast

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ah talking about that ah it's like we're

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just getting out there we are really

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getting up there and this is all led me

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in fact when as soon as we're finished

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doing this introduction I'm getting in

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my car yeah I'm driving up to the doctor

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and I'm going to get my hoping cough

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booster shot is that right yep and will

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you be back before the end of the show

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beaters and I'll be back by the end of

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the show to do the closer ah Richard

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you're just a dynamo I am I'm I'm doing

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this for a couple reasons 1 i'm going to

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be an uncle again which is very exciting

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all right and two I just wanted to say

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sincerely in your face avian them's

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fightin words fightin words well let's

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just get over the show sure what else is

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happening is Aaron here this way oh yes

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grain of salt with our answer here love

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that nice little things chintu nicely

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things you he's going to be looking at

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wondering why politicians don't act more

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like scientists that's a very good

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question but that'll you'll see what he

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means when granite rock comes on we have

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the think tank of course and we had

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seven people for the think tank it's

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becoming like one of those house parties

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where one sends a text to each other you

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see one game crashes our skin

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getting out of control I think we're

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going to have to actually the think

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tanks becoming very popular and I'm glad

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that people have just people ran and

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peep off the street it was amazing they

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come in guys like what's going on here

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I'm going to join it now a great group

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of people um and that's the show that's

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the show show number 30 number 30 and

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let's just get on with it shall we let's

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dr. Bruce M hood the director of the

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Bristol cognitive development center in

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the experimental psychology department

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at the University of Bristol as a new

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book out in the vein of malcolm

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gladwell's blink he explores how we may

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be pre wired with a mine design that

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creates our super sense that shapes our

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intuitions and superstitions and is

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essential to the way we learn to

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understand the world and brings us

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together as a society his new book super

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sense why we believe the unbelievable

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has featured in Time magazine and is

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praised by the likes of Steven Pinker

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and Susan Blackmore as his book launched

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in both the USA and the UK professor

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hood kindly took a moment to talk to us

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for the skeptic zone thank you very much

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for joining us dr. Bruce hood now you

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begin your book super sense how we

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believe in the unbelievable with a very

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simple tale about how even a condemned

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building or a simple jumper can tap into

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superstitious beliefs well the example

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you're referring to is the killers

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cardigan or the color sweater and this

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was a deliberate ploy to try and engage

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the the journalists who turned up to the

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press conference with a very dramatic

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example of the point I was trying to

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make namely that objects which have some

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emotional context generate almost the

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fear of contamination if they're they're

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associated with somebody evil so I I

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basically in the press conference I

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brought along a cardigan an old sweater

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and asked to be willing to wear it for

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twenty bucks and of course people it was

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about yeah they put their hands up and

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and then I said would you still wear it

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if he knew it belonged to Fred West who

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was the notorious killer very famous a

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very infamous and most people put their

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hands down there was one or two get the

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hands up but as I pointed out the other

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people were rather shocked people around

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them were surprised that anyone would

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even consider touching

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wearing a cardigan that they believed

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had been previously worn by murderer of

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course it was mild mild sweater Michael

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Corrigan but the belief which was

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sufficient to create that and that's why

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I use it as a just a very immediate

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dramatic action because the thing is

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that people will respond immediately and

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then try and rationalize or justify

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their behavior after the event and of

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course people say oh it's just the

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Association but I think in the book I've

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tried to make a very I try to make a

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case that whilst it could be association

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that there are there more intuitive

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processes operating which really ties

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into the theme of the book namely that

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we intuitively infer hidden dimensions

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to reality especially with objects which

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have some emotional valence and so in

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the same way that you wouldn't want to

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wear a killers cardigan you pay very

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good months of money to where Princess

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Diana's dress maybe or maybe not where

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but just ain't it so it's this idea that

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objects which are you know they can take

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on the almost an additional property or

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we infer there's something I'm not

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saying that there is anything else it's

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just this is what we assume now that

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example demonstrates the influence of

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one's peers but it doesn't eliminate the

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influence of other factors does it yeah

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I think that's I think that's one of the

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reasons why we have believers and

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non-believers there is this kind of

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assumption that we get our beliefs from

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what we're told as if we're sort of

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blank blank slates and that somehow

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believers have been indoctrinated

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through there through their lifetime

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with beliefs and that's why they they

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hold these notions well lost whilst

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culture and dr. nation plays a role it

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can't be the entire explanation because

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even within the same family you can have

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believers and non-believers so it's it

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can't be the entire our satisfactory

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answer to the difference between why we

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have believers non-believers and what

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I've done in the book is I've pointed

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out this this might reflect on the fact

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way that we rely on either our intuitive

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reasoning of the world or a more

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analytical rational way of seeing the

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world we have both ways of thinking this

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is a typical distinction made by

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psychologists we talk about the two

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processes of

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reasoning what is intuitive in one is

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analytical and what we know is that the

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intuitive system probably operates very

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early in development whereas the more

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rational analytical system is one which

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comes much later in development and can

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be honed and fine-tuned through

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education but within everyone there are

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two systems and so I think the real

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difference between the believers and the

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non-believers is the extent to which the

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non-believers can suppress or inhibit

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the tendency to rely on intuition but it

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never entirely goes away and that's

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another point that I make that under

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stress or in times of crisis or

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uncertainty and indeed well at times of

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illness you can compromise the

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analytical system the rational system

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and the intuitive one will push through

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with with your intrusive thoughts and

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concerns which are supernatural in

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context now the notion of being

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hardwired towards supernatural beliefs

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was discussed earlier by dr. Chrissie

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Wilson from the University of Tasmania

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on our show does that idea have much

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resistance do you think I've achieved

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that remarkable feat of annoying both

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sides of the argument simultaneously

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because well the thing is that the the

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believers of course would like to think

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that they're being you know that their

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beliefs are substantiate 'add and

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they're coming up there they're coming

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up with these decisions by themselves

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and of course the skeptics on the other

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side would like to think if you remove

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the context or the the person you know

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the the influence of the environment

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people will somehow develop into

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reasonable rational people and of course

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the hardwiring side of that suggests

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that both sides of that extreme position

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are incorrect that in fact that they're

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they're an inevitable consequence of the

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way that we naturally interpret the

286
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world so yes I if there has been some

287
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resistance the idea so far it seems to

288
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become it seems to be coming mainly from

289
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from the the skeptics and I think that's

290
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yeah I think that's because if you read

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The God Delusion or Don Dennett's books

292
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there is this a lot of emphasis is put

293
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on memes which are these this notion of

294
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an idea that can somehow propagate or

295
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transmit almost like a virus and so the

296
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idea is you if you cut out the virus or

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eradicate the virus then you won't

298
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have supernatural beliefs spreading but

299
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i don't think the mean theory is

300
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entirely satisfactory because if the

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true origins of belief are from within

302
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the child that means you've always going

303
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to have a continual battle trying to

304
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fight this this inclination which is in

305
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fact very very natural so I think the

306
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skeptics done particularly liked that

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story or that account because it does

308
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suggest that a lot of the effort is

309
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going to be a bit misguided I did notice

310
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from the start that they were reviews

311
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and comments which said skeptics

312
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wouldn't normally buy this book which I

313
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must admit i found kind of a challenge

314
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was this something you intended oh I

315
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:22,740
really hope so because I'm in fact I

316
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don't think I i think that uh that you

317
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know if you if you see my website then

318
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you know that term that i am concerned

319
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away the way the beliefs have led to

320
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atrocities and especially in Africa you

321
00:12:39,050 --> 00:12:35,970
know I highlighted some of the recent

322
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Sun crimes in the witch burning and then

323
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:41,130
also the attacks against the albinos in

324
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Tanzania for body parts because they're

325
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used in their traditional medicine the

326
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mood two killings these are called so

327
00:12:51,050 --> 00:12:49,110
I'm not saying that beliefs are

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completely innocuous and we should just

329
00:12:57,710 --> 00:12:55,350
accept the you know willy-nilly you know

330
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we really have to be vigilant because

331
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:00,089
sometimes beliefs can be recruited up by

332
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individuals or groups who will use them

333
00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:05,069
to their own ends and purposes but they

334
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are inevitable and I think that that's

335
00:13:12,769 --> 00:13:09,060
something we've got to appreciate so

336
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that I am rallying cry to the skeptics

337
00:13:16,970 --> 00:13:15,510
is yes you know it keep an eye on

338
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beliefs but if you want to know your

339
00:13:20,569 --> 00:13:18,750
enemy you know understand the nature

340
00:13:23,180 --> 00:13:20,579
where these things are coming from and

341
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:23,190
whilst culture provides a framework

342
00:13:27,319 --> 00:13:25,440
which encourages believes we have to

343
00:13:30,079 --> 00:13:27,329
recognize that there is an additional

344
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process namely the origins for why we

345
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:31,589
might accept these beliefs in the first

346
00:13:36,860 --> 00:13:33,360
place so what I'm trying to do is

347
00:13:38,540 --> 00:13:36,870
broaden up or move the the the argument

348
00:13:41,329 --> 00:13:38,550
forward because I think we've reached a

349
00:13:43,759 --> 00:13:41,339
bit of an impasse in the recent year is

350
00:13:47,379 --> 00:13:43,769
about what to do about belief this idea

351
00:13:50,179 --> 00:13:47,389
of trying to eradicate it by a wholesale

352
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:50,189
removal of cultures I simply not going

353
00:13:55,220 --> 00:13:52,800
to work III don't have any belief that

354
00:13:57,079 --> 00:13:55,230
that's going to really happen because we

355
00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:57,089
know historically this has been here

356
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right from the

357
00:14:02,060 --> 00:14:00,090
civilization we know it's universal and

358
00:14:03,890 --> 00:14:02,070
when there have been attempts to remove

359
00:14:06,350 --> 00:14:03,900
the influence of organized belief

360
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:06,360
systems IE religion they generally go

361
00:14:11,690 --> 00:14:09,090
underground and flourish and thrive as

362
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they did in communist russia and china

363
00:14:15,620 --> 00:14:14,160
so what i'm saying is that i think and

364
00:14:17,510 --> 00:14:15,630
understand if you read the book i think

365
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:17,520
it will open people's eyes that there's

366
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a wide gamut of beliefs from religion

367
00:14:23,390 --> 00:14:21,030
right through to the secular

368
00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:23,400
supernatural notions i discuss and that

369
00:14:26,900 --> 00:14:25,110
we understand these in terms of their

370
00:14:28,490 --> 00:14:26,910
origins were better equipped to deal

371
00:14:31,130 --> 00:14:28,500
with them now you've already mentioned

372
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in passing blogging and if people head

373
00:14:40,430 --> 00:14:38,280
to your website at WWF for Bruce M hood

374
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:40,440
they will discover a variety of blog

375
00:14:44,780 --> 00:14:42,690
entries have you enjoyed the experience

376
00:14:46,850 --> 00:14:44,790
of getting online and interacting with

377
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:46,860
people yes when when the publisher has

378
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:49,530
asked me to start a blog I was very

379
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:50,970
reluctant to do so because I thought

380
00:14:55,820 --> 00:14:52,800
blogging was a very self-indulgent I'm

381
00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:55,830
kind of pastime and as a job as a job

382
00:15:01,280 --> 00:14:58,170
well for someone who's got a full-time

383
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:01,290
job as a researcher without much time I

384
00:15:06,170 --> 00:15:04,800
was concerned about I i must confess i

385
00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:06,180
didn't know a lot about blogging i

386
00:15:10,580 --> 00:15:08,880
didn't understand it why anyone would

387
00:15:12,650 --> 00:15:10,590
ever devote time or effort to doing

388
00:15:14,450 --> 00:15:12,660
doing that but actually having joined

389
00:15:15,950 --> 00:15:14,460
the blogosphere and the blogging

390
00:15:17,780 --> 00:15:15,960
community and having looked at your

391
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:17,790
blogs and blogs from around the world i

392
00:15:22,270 --> 00:15:19,050
realized actually there are very

393
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:22,280
powerful forum for not only

394
00:15:28,610 --> 00:15:25,250
disseminating information but also

395
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:28,620
harvesting ideas from others because as

396
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:31,170
you pointed out others have written to

397
00:15:34,940 --> 00:15:32,850
me have come to the blog with ideas and

398
00:15:38,330 --> 00:15:34,950
suggestions and I think it's just opened

399
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:38,340
my eyes to the real power of blogging

400
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:41,010
and how it really cannon not just

401
00:15:46,670 --> 00:15:44,010
enhance publicity for selling books but

402
00:15:48,410 --> 00:15:46,680
actually it has made me take other

403
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:48,420
people's perspectives and I have shifted

404
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:50,730
my position on a number of issues which

405
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:53,730
I thought I understood fairly well on

406
00:15:57,079 --> 00:15:55,410
the basis of things that people have

407
00:15:58,850 --> 00:15:57,089
written to me about maybe just to refine

408
00:16:02,390 --> 00:15:58,860
my arguments or refine some of the

409
00:16:05,150 --> 00:16:02,400
comments I've made but um the the site

410
00:16:08,810 --> 00:16:05,160
Bruce and Hakam I think works really

411
00:16:11,290 --> 00:16:08,820
well because I've tried to regularly

412
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:11,300
scrutinize these stories from around the

413
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:13,490
world hitting the headlines and look

414
00:16:17,769 --> 00:16:15,920
towards some or interpret them in this

415
00:16:20,259 --> 00:16:17,779
framework that I keep coming back to in

416
00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:20,269
the book mainly that people assume there

417
00:16:26,199 --> 00:16:24,110
are forces energies patents entities

418
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:26,209
operating in the world and explains a

419
00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:29,360
lot of very diverse human behavior that

420
00:16:32,829 --> 00:16:30,649
at first instance doesn't look

421
00:16:35,710 --> 00:16:32,839
supernatural but when you start to

422
00:16:37,870 --> 00:16:35,720
analyze it and Deacon deconstructed it

423
00:16:39,130 --> 00:16:37,880
turns out to be the case so you know

424
00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:39,140
it's everything from why we use

425
00:16:45,639 --> 00:16:42,110
cosmetics to our attitudes to organ

426
00:16:47,470 --> 00:16:45,649
transplants to even the atrocities

427
00:16:51,220 --> 00:16:47,480
committed against individuals who we

428
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:51,230
perceive to be if you like witches so

429
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:53,450
it's been a it's been a very enjoyable

430
00:16:57,460 --> 00:16:55,010
experience I intend to keep it going

431
00:17:01,840 --> 00:16:57,470
irrespective of how the book does now on

432
00:17:03,850 --> 00:17:01,850
my own blog at www com I've had people

433
00:17:06,100 --> 00:17:03,860
comment about the review I wrote of your

434
00:17:08,770 --> 00:17:06,110
book there and there's been two

435
00:17:10,990 --> 00:17:08,780
questions one was about chapter five

436
00:17:13,179 --> 00:17:11,000
where you talk about the common mental

437
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:13,189
listing vocabulary which lays the

438
00:17:18,370 --> 00:17:15,530
foundation for beliefs in both religious

439
00:17:19,870 --> 00:17:18,380
and secular supernaturalism and whether

440
00:17:22,270 --> 00:17:19,880
or not brain scientists have a

441
00:17:24,220 --> 00:17:22,280
vocabulary problem for example we have

442
00:17:26,730 --> 00:17:24,230
mine powered devices when in fact

443
00:17:29,740 --> 00:17:26,740
they're clearly brain powered devices

444
00:17:32,740 --> 00:17:29,750
yeah that's true i mean it's the problem

445
00:17:33,970 --> 00:17:32,750
is that when we talk about the mind well

446
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:33,980
there are two problems there's a naive

447
00:17:38,110 --> 00:17:35,570
notion of the mind is separate to the

448
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:38,120
brain and also it's very difficult to

449
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:41,120
get away from the language of mental

450
00:17:45,940 --> 00:17:43,360
istic language when you're discussing

451
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:45,950
making decisions and reason and so

452
00:17:51,340 --> 00:17:47,840
you're absolutely correct that from a

453
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:51,350
very early age we have this notion of

454
00:17:55,390 --> 00:17:53,210
how we use the term mental istic terms

455
00:17:57,790 --> 00:17:55,400
and it does lead us into these these

456
00:17:59,950 --> 00:17:57,800
traps of talking as if the mind is

457
00:18:03,150 --> 00:17:59,960
completely separate to the brain but

458
00:18:05,860 --> 00:18:03,160
neuroscientists like Pinker and myself

459
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:05,870
whilst we can use that vocabulary very

460
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:08,690
easily in common parlance with others in

461
00:18:15,010 --> 00:18:13,010
reality of course neuroscientist almost

462
00:18:17,950 --> 00:18:15,020
20 to a man would would argue that or

463
00:18:20,140 --> 00:18:17,960
women would argue that it's you know

464
00:18:22,330 --> 00:18:20,150
it's definitely that it's the brain it's

465
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:22,340
just that we don't have a common usage

466
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:25,130
of the word of it's my brain it did it

467
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:28,490
we would keep saying I did it or it's me

468
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:31,850
and so these notions of how we represent

469
00:18:36,070 --> 00:18:33,770
ourselves are embedded in the language

470
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:36,080
so it's going to always be a continual

471
00:18:39,610 --> 00:18:37,970
problem i think i'm not sure that we can

472
00:18:41,950 --> 00:18:39,620
do anything about it but it's a very

473
00:18:44,020 --> 00:18:41,960
good point that the the person raised

474
00:18:47,380 --> 00:18:44,030
I've had another question from a

475
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:47,390
correspondent in regards to the repeated

476
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:49,760
studies which demonstrate that women

477
00:18:54,550 --> 00:18:52,010
have a tendency towards belief in the

478
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:54,560
power normal and belief in superstitions

479
00:18:59,620 --> 00:18:57,290
and she had a concern that many people

480
00:19:01,930 --> 00:18:59,630
might condemn it as being a judgment of

481
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:01,940
women's intelligence that because of the

482
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:04,400
credulity that seems to be demonstrated

483
00:19:08,140 --> 00:19:06,170
it would equal that women are more

484
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:08,150
stupid and that's why they would believe

485
00:19:13,420 --> 00:19:10,250
have you ever come across concerns about

486
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:13,430
that well um she's up she's actually

487
00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:16,010
right to take issue with it and I would

488
00:19:21,130 --> 00:19:19,430
I would reply that first of all I don't

489
00:19:24,190 --> 00:19:21,140
think an inclination towards intuitive

490
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:24,200
reasoning is stupid on the contrary I

491
00:19:27,670 --> 00:19:26,210
think that you need both types of

492
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:27,680
reasoning both the analytical and the

493
00:19:32,830 --> 00:19:30,770
intuitive to make progress because the

494
00:19:35,140 --> 00:19:32,840
research shows that you need to know

495
00:19:37,530 --> 00:19:35,150
it's a cliche but to think beyond the

496
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:37,540
box is really what's required to make

497
00:19:43,570 --> 00:19:40,850
steps of progress even in science we

498
00:19:45,010 --> 00:19:43,580
need intuitions and sensing patterns

499
00:19:46,930 --> 00:19:45,020
because if you operate with a very

500
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:46,940
analytical very rationalistic position

501
00:19:50,740 --> 00:19:49,250
you're very constrained and of course

502
00:19:52,330 --> 00:19:50,750
when you're dealing with the complexity

503
00:19:55,210 --> 00:19:52,340
of the universe and you're dealing with

504
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:55,220
a complexity of data if you have what we

505
00:20:00,700 --> 00:19:57,530
call a signal-to-noise ratio which means

506
00:20:02,140 --> 00:20:00,710
you discard a lot of the interesting

507
00:20:04,030 --> 00:20:02,150
signals you're going to be missing a lot

508
00:20:06,310 --> 00:20:04,040
of the complexity that's out there so

509
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:06,320
you need to have a broad view as well as

510
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:08,930
a more analytical constrained view but

511
00:20:14,110 --> 00:20:11,440
the data is true in terms of the

512
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:14,120
likelihood to endorsing beliefs and

513
00:20:19,060 --> 00:20:16,250
supernatural beliefs and the studies I'm

514
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:19,070
afraid our are pretty consistent and

515
00:20:24,190 --> 00:20:21,410
that is the case that females do score

516
00:20:26,110 --> 00:20:24,200
higher on these indices than men so I do

517
00:20:28,630 --> 00:20:26,120
think that that's something which has to

518
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:28,640
be addressed but of course we should

519
00:20:37,210 --> 00:20:33,530
reject as basically sexism any idea that

520
00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:37,220
that somehow is is a weaker more stupid

521
00:20:40,990 --> 00:20:38,510
way of thinking that just

522
00:20:42,580 --> 00:20:41,000
simply is is not true and the other

523
00:20:44,980 --> 00:20:42,590
thing and getting back to the vocabulary

524
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:44,990
question you mentioned the last question

525
00:20:49,210 --> 00:20:46,850
I think that we have to be careful with

526
00:20:51,550 --> 00:20:49,220
this word irrational because irrational

527
00:20:54,610 --> 00:20:51,560
is loaded it sounds as if it's somehow

528
00:20:56,170 --> 00:20:54,620
week thinking but of course the fact is

529
00:20:58,870 --> 00:20:56,180
that many of these belief systems are

530
00:21:02,290 --> 00:20:58,880
very adaptive you know not only do

531
00:21:04,770 --> 00:21:02,300
superstitions help you alleviate the

532
00:21:08,650 --> 00:21:04,780
worst excesses of uncertainty and stress

533
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:08,660
but these behaviors are highly adapted

534
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:10,490
otherwise it wouldn't be around so we

535
00:21:14,350 --> 00:21:12,410
have to recognize that even though

536
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:14,360
there's no rational basis in terms of

537
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:16,910
the logic or the reality of these

538
00:21:21,550 --> 00:21:19,120
practices and beliefs they do confer

539
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:21,560
psychological adaptation and so we have

540
00:21:25,990 --> 00:21:23,810
to recognize that as well you've used

541
00:21:29,230 --> 00:21:26,000
the term intuition a couple of times and

542
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:29,240
feminine intuition is one concept which

543
00:21:33,130 --> 00:21:31,010
does apparently have some reasoning

544
00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:33,140
behind the term doesn't it yes as if

545
00:21:36,910 --> 00:21:34,880
they've got an extra sense the rest of

546
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:36,920
us thought I don't have I think that

547
00:21:42,730 --> 00:21:40,970
it's true that if you look at males and

548
00:21:45,670 --> 00:21:42,740
females on social cognition their

549
00:21:48,220 --> 00:21:45,680
ability to interpret others and read

550
00:21:49,570 --> 00:21:48,230
their body language and and they've got

551
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:49,580
theory of mine in other words to see

552
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:51,440
other people's perspectives then the

553
00:21:55,060 --> 00:21:53,330
evidence again is quite overwhelming

554
00:21:58,210 --> 00:21:55,070
that females are much better at social

555
00:21:59,890 --> 00:21:58,220
skills than males my colleague Simon

556
00:22:01,360 --> 00:21:59,900
baron-cohen has made a big deal out of

557
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:01,370
this and his theory about autism

558
00:22:05,770 --> 00:22:03,200
hierarchies that autism is an extreme

559
00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:05,780
male brain I'm not sure I I would go as

560
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:07,910
far as that but his research and indeed

561
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:09,530
the research of many others it's

562
00:22:14,590 --> 00:22:12,050
consistent in this idea that females are

563
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:14,600
different in the way that they can read

564
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:16,910
other people so if if we're talking

565
00:22:20,260 --> 00:22:18,890
about feminine and intuition in those

566
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:20,270
social skills than that's absolutely

567
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:23,330
true I found this book enjoyable not

568
00:22:27,580 --> 00:22:25,250
only because of the pop cultural

569
00:22:31,210 --> 00:22:27,590
references that were integrated with the

570
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:31,220
science but the investigations of the

571
00:22:36,790 --> 00:22:33,890
influences upon the brain of cases like

572
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:36,800
dementia and Capgras syndrome which was

573
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:39,440
one I'd never heard of before yeah so

574
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:40,850
the cup cross syndrome and these

575
00:22:44,290 --> 00:22:42,650
dissociation syndromes I think are

576
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:44,300
fascinating they're very thankfully very

577
00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:48,320
rare because they're quite bizarre this

578
00:22:53,690 --> 00:22:50,640
is a situation where people lose

579
00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:53,700
touch with reality literally they think

580
00:23:00,800 --> 00:22:56,960
that reality is either a fabrication

581
00:23:02,510 --> 00:23:00,810
which is court heart syndrome they think

582
00:23:04,940 --> 00:23:02,520
that in fact they're dead and all their

583
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:04,950
their living older conscious awareness

584
00:23:09,860 --> 00:23:06,930
is actually just a complete dream as it

585
00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:09,870
were or cut grass syndrome which is the

586
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:11,400
case where someone believes that their

587
00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:14,400
spouse or significant other is in fact a

588
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:17,310
replicant or a very sophisticated robot

589
00:23:19,970 --> 00:23:18,930
and what's going on there i think is

590
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:19,980
very interesting i think what's

591
00:23:22,820 --> 00:23:20,970
happening is you're getting a

592
00:23:26,090 --> 00:23:22,830
dissociation or disconnection between

593
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:26,100
the object recognition or person

594
00:23:29,630 --> 00:23:27,690
recognition system of the brain you know

595
00:23:32,540 --> 00:23:29,640
how we recognize someone visually and

596
00:23:34,850 --> 00:23:32,550
the emotional tagging system that warm

597
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:34,860
fuzzy feeling that we get when we see

598
00:23:38,540 --> 00:23:37,170
our spouse and so what happens in cut

599
00:23:39,890 --> 00:23:38,550
grass syndrome is that these are

600
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:39,900
disconnected so the person will

601
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:42,210
recognize that this other person looks

602
00:23:46,190 --> 00:23:44,370
like their wife or their husband but

603
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:46,200
because they don't get the emotional tag

604
00:23:51,380 --> 00:23:48,810
or the emotional the flood of sensation

605
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:51,390
of familiarity they think that this is

606
00:23:55,790 --> 00:23:53,730
just a very sophisticated replicant and

607
00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:55,800
in some situations has actually led to

608
00:24:00,620 --> 00:23:57,840
the person killing the the spouse

609
00:24:02,990 --> 00:24:00,630
because yeah I'd say I'd like to think

610
00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:03,000
it was an amusing sonari but in fact it

611
00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:05,580
does lead to some very fortunate

612
00:24:08,540 --> 00:24:07,110
circumstances and it has led to the

613
00:24:09,740 --> 00:24:08,550
deaths of people killing the other

614
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:09,750
person because they assume that there

615
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:14,490
there really are aliens and the issue of

616
00:24:19,790 --> 00:24:17,970
dementia and Alzheimer's this is a line

617
00:24:22,250 --> 00:24:19,800
of recent research which i think is

618
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:22,260
absolutely fascinating and it's by work

619
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:24,480
by Deb Kellerman over in Boston and

620
00:24:28,790 --> 00:24:26,490
Debra's like chicken Boston as well and

621
00:24:31,220 --> 00:24:28,800
they've shown that when you look at

622
00:24:32,990 --> 00:24:31,230
elderly patients before the onset of

623
00:24:35,570 --> 00:24:33,000
their dementia is so profound that they

624
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:35,580
can no longer kind of answer correctly

625
00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:38,250
if you give them surveys or

626
00:24:43,610 --> 00:24:40,140
questionnaires of studies where you get

627
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:43,620
them to reason about the the natural

628
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:46,410
world if you like then they make very

629
00:24:50,780 --> 00:24:49,650
similar inferences to the way that seven

630
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:50,790
year olds reason about the world in

631
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:52,650
other words they incline towards to

632
00:24:57,770 --> 00:24:55,770
seeing creationist explanations for the

633
00:24:59,840 --> 00:24:57,780
world and geological purpose in other

634
00:25:03,140 --> 00:24:59,850
words seeing the world has been designed

635
00:25:04,460 --> 00:25:03,150
for for purpose whereas a Darwinian of

636
00:25:06,860 --> 00:25:04,470
course would say that there's no to

637
00:25:08,450 --> 00:25:06,870
as such it's just natural selection so

638
00:25:11,270 --> 00:25:08,460
what the the dimensional studies are

639
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:11,280
showing us is that people become

640
00:25:15,620 --> 00:25:13,919
increasingly inclined to rely on their

641
00:25:17,779 --> 00:25:15,630
childhood reasoning mechanisms which

642
00:25:19,250 --> 00:25:17,789
have never entirely gone away and so

643
00:25:21,620 --> 00:25:19,260
this supports the general thesis in the

644
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:21,630
book that I'm proposing mainly that you

645
00:25:24,770 --> 00:25:23,610
start off with this childlike way of

646
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:24,780
reasoning about the world through

647
00:25:29,060 --> 00:25:26,730
intuitive processes and they stay with

648
00:25:31,850 --> 00:25:29,070
us and all that happens with education

649
00:25:34,370 --> 00:25:31,860
and experiences that we can learn more

650
00:25:36,649 --> 00:25:34,380
analytical or scientific concepts to

651
00:25:38,299 --> 00:25:36,659
sort of suppress or override these

652
00:25:40,299 --> 00:25:38,309
earlier editions but the early ones

653
00:25:43,399 --> 00:25:40,309
never entirely go away but can re-emerge

654
00:25:45,649 --> 00:25:43,409
as our analytical system becomes

655
00:25:49,490 --> 00:25:45,659
compromised through disease or dementia

656
00:25:51,860 --> 00:25:49,500
dementia in later years so is education

657
00:25:54,890 --> 00:25:51,870
the key to challenging these beliefs yes

658
00:25:57,770 --> 00:25:54,900
I think so and edits and it's an

659
00:26:00,529 --> 00:25:57,780
effortful process so for example just

660
00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:00,539
moving away from supernatural beliefs I

661
00:26:05,810 --> 00:26:03,809
work on my reasoning in physical

662
00:26:07,399 --> 00:26:05,820
reasoning about the object motion so I

663
00:26:09,740 --> 00:26:07,409
studied children how they think about

664
00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:09,750
the motion of objects as they move as

665
00:26:13,250 --> 00:26:11,580
they fall you know I studied gravatt how

666
00:26:16,580 --> 00:26:13,260
they reason about gravity are they

667
00:26:18,890 --> 00:26:16,590
reason about objects the heavier objects

668
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:18,900
fall faster than lighter objects these

669
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:21,330
are the sort of misconceptions that many

670
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:24,450
adults still have so for example the

671
00:26:28,580 --> 00:26:26,010
power of the Leaning Tower of Pisa

672
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:28,590
example Galileo's example if you have

673
00:26:32,210 --> 00:26:30,450
two cannon balls one weighs a hundred

674
00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:32,220
times the weight of the other people

675
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:34,110
assume that it will fall much faster but

676
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:35,850
of course it does and there is a slight

677
00:26:40,010 --> 00:26:38,010
difference through written through wind

678
00:26:42,049 --> 00:26:40,020
resistance but in fact the two generally

679
00:26:44,779 --> 00:26:42,059
hit the ground at the same time now if

680
00:26:46,970 --> 00:26:44,789
you ask the person in the street to make

681
00:26:48,590 --> 00:26:46,980
a prediction most people will say that

682
00:26:50,810 --> 00:26:48,600
the heavier ball falls much much faster

683
00:26:53,779 --> 00:26:50,820
now there's been an interesting study

684
00:26:56,690 --> 00:26:53,789
done by Kevin Dunbar I'm showing that if

685
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:56,700
you put people in a scanner a brain

686
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:58,080
scanner which can measure their brain

687
00:27:02,419 --> 00:27:00,000
activity whilst they're trying to

688
00:27:04,669 --> 00:27:02,429
unlearn this kind of intuitive

689
00:27:06,409 --> 00:27:04,679
misconception about object motions you

690
00:27:08,930 --> 00:27:06,419
can see that the frontal parts of the

691
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:08,940
brain are firing away really active

692
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:11,730
trying to suppress lower centers and

693
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:13,440
this suggests that you're almost

694
00:27:17,539 --> 00:27:15,120
fighting against your intuition when

695
00:27:18,290 --> 00:27:17,549
you're acquiring new concepts so I think

696
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:18,300
this is a

697
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:21,600
dynamic interaction between systems of

698
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:23,250
the brain which have these earlier

699
00:27:27,050 --> 00:27:25,650
representations about how things work

700
00:27:29,540 --> 00:27:27,060
through their intuitive processes and

701
00:27:32,030 --> 00:27:29,550
the second are the secondary system the

702
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:32,040
analytical system which requires a lot

703
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:34,080
of frontal lobe activation to suppress

704
00:27:38,780 --> 00:27:36,210
and inhibit the tendency to go with your

705
00:27:40,550 --> 00:27:38,790
gut reaction as it were so I think that

706
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:40,560
these studies are very interesting

707
00:27:44,780 --> 00:27:41,760
because they suggest that there is a

708
00:27:47,780 --> 00:27:44,790
continual dynamic interaction between

709
00:27:50,420 --> 00:27:47,790
different modes of thinking and this

710
00:27:52,580 --> 00:27:50,430
would explain why when you put people

711
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:52,590
under stressful situations where you

712
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:54,570
compromise their ability to use their

713
00:27:58,640 --> 00:27:56,490
frontal lobes their executive functions

714
00:28:01,370 --> 00:27:58,650
they can start to revert back to

715
00:28:02,900 --> 00:28:01,380
intuitive processes so for example there

716
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:02,910
was a study in science which is one of

717
00:28:07,340 --> 00:28:04,650
the leading journals are just last year

718
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:07,350
by Whitson Galinski showing that if you

719
00:28:11,390 --> 00:28:09,120
put people in this situation where they

720
00:28:13,790 --> 00:28:11,400
feel loss of control then they start to

721
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:13,800
endorse superstitions and supernatural

722
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:16,080
beliefs and again getting back to this

723
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:17,610
ish issue of of seeing the big picture

724
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:21,210
they also detect patterns and pictures

725
00:28:25,580 --> 00:28:24,000
amongst random noise so it's all part of

726
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:25,590
the same sort of process an event i

727
00:28:29,570 --> 00:28:27,330
think there's this inclination to seeing

728
00:28:32,060 --> 00:28:29,580
connections where there may in fact be

729
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:32,070
none and just just to throw in the last

730
00:28:37,090 --> 00:28:34,610
bit of evidence i also talked about the

731
00:28:39,860 --> 00:28:37,100
relationship between intuitive reasoning

732
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:39,870
creativity and psychopathology in the

733
00:28:47,060 --> 00:28:42,410
case of mental illness because again

734
00:28:49,610 --> 00:28:47,070
before people become very impaired in

735
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:49,620
schizophrenia if they have a high

736
00:28:54,590 --> 00:28:51,840
measure what's called schizotypy bayit

737
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:54,600
to also see connections and they will

738
00:28:58,850 --> 00:28:56,490
detect patterns where in fact there may

739
00:29:01,700 --> 00:28:58,860
be none it's called apophenia and apathy

740
00:29:03,170 --> 00:29:01,710
nia is this sense that there are things

741
00:29:04,670 --> 00:29:03,180
there are significant events going on

742
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:04,680
the world that really relate to them

743
00:29:08,750 --> 00:29:06,570
directly and this of course forms the

744
00:29:12,020 --> 00:29:08,760
basis of a lot of paranoid thoughts so

745
00:29:13,490 --> 00:29:12,030
this this is the extreme end of the

746
00:29:15,260 --> 00:29:13,500
super sense when it goes a little bit

747
00:29:16,790 --> 00:29:15,270
off key is that were when you start to

748
00:29:19,310 --> 00:29:16,800
kind of sense all sorts of things as

749
00:29:22,340 --> 00:29:19,320
being some sort of collusion or some

750
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:22,350
sort of conspiracy but it's just part of

751
00:29:27,140 --> 00:29:24,960
the same continuum which it's stems from

752
00:29:28,670 --> 00:29:27,150
people's tendency to assume that there

753
00:29:30,290 --> 00:29:28,680
is structure and there are patterns and

754
00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:30,300
their energies operating in the universe

755
00:29:34,130 --> 00:29:31,860
finally super

756
00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:34,140
sense has been successfully launched in

757
00:29:40,669 --> 00:29:36,660
the US and it is now available in the UK

758
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:40,679
I got my own copy online via amazon com

759
00:29:46,370 --> 00:29:42,720
when will it be released in australia

760
00:29:49,970 --> 00:29:46,380
well the the next big thing on the on

761
00:29:52,610 --> 00:29:49,980
the calendar is is may the ninth which

762
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:52,620
is saturday it's coming outs featured in

763
00:29:56,810 --> 00:29:54,330
The Guardian in their weekend magazine

764
00:29:58,760 --> 00:29:56,820
and that marks the launch of the UK

765
00:30:01,520 --> 00:29:58,770
version and the UK version is slightly

766
00:30:03,770 --> 00:30:01,530
different to the American version at the

767
00:30:05,270 --> 00:30:03,780
end of the UK book there's a section for

768
00:30:07,940 --> 00:30:05,280
an additional section for readers to

769
00:30:10,909 --> 00:30:07,950
take some tests to see if they detect

770
00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:10,919
patterns amongst the the random noise

771
00:30:16,340 --> 00:30:13,110
see how they score on supernatural

772
00:30:18,770 --> 00:30:16,350
scores so it's a slightly different book

773
00:30:21,470 --> 00:30:18,780
it's coming on paperback and I'm doing a

774
00:30:24,049 --> 00:30:21,480
couple of BBC shows start the week

775
00:30:25,909 --> 00:30:24,059
there's a big cultural show at the

776
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:25,919
beginning and that's been broadcast and

777
00:30:31,460 --> 00:30:28,890
on May the 25th and so yeah there's a

778
00:30:33,650 --> 00:30:31,470
big push for publicity in the UK and the

779
00:30:35,060 --> 00:30:33,660
publishers constable in Robinson who are

780
00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:35,070
publishing the UK have the rights to

781
00:30:41,630 --> 00:30:38,910
publish in Australia and with my last

782
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,640
meeting with them there was talk about a

783
00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:43,200
coming out and straight in the next

784
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:45,240
couple of months i'm hopeful that the UK

785
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:47,450
launch works very well and person

786
00:30:52,730 --> 00:30:50,370
generates interest in doing in Australia

787
00:30:57,860 --> 00:30:52,740
as well thank you very much Bruce and

788
00:31:00,140 --> 00:30:57,870
people can head to wwm would calm to

789
00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:00,150
find out more about super sense you're

790
00:31:16,060 --> 00:31:14,150
just is in the arm yeah yep not true to

791
00:31:18,860 --> 00:31:16,070
my word listeners I've come here to the

792
00:31:20,890 --> 00:31:18,870
surgery of dr. Richard Gordon who's been

793
00:31:23,270 --> 00:31:20,900
a longtime member of Australian skippers

794
00:31:25,970 --> 00:31:23,280
general practitioner and i'm going to

795
00:31:29,060 --> 00:31:25,980
get my booster shot and i can see him

796
00:31:31,580 --> 00:31:29,070
over there busy preparing me the needle

797
00:31:34,670 --> 00:31:31,590
for the injection doesn't look very

798
00:31:36,350 --> 00:31:34,680
scary nice fresh little dress for you Oh

799
00:31:39,050 --> 00:31:36,360
a fresh sharp needle just for me how

800
00:31:42,130 --> 00:31:39,060
lucky am I I've rolled up my sleeve I

801
00:31:48,770 --> 00:31:42,140
might even get a jellybean after this

802
00:31:50,750 --> 00:31:48,780
possibly so this is what many people out

803
00:31:52,850 --> 00:31:50,760
there and the community should be doing

804
00:31:55,340 --> 00:31:52,860
yep and the government has attempted to

805
00:31:57,500 --> 00:31:55,350
has made this available particularly for

806
00:32:02,150 --> 00:31:57,510
people who are associated with children

807
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:02,160
under four months of age so as to try to

808
00:32:07,940 --> 00:32:04,290
halt the spread of whooping cough that's

809
00:32:09,860 --> 00:32:07,950
it yep that's it's all over hardly felt

810
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:09,870
a thing that's amazing exactly I

811
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:11,250
remember in the old days when I was a

812
00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:13,290
little boy can i see very sharp one now

813
00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:16,590
what was shop now exactly what was in

814
00:32:22,460 --> 00:32:19,200
that danger that injection is blue

815
00:32:26,570 --> 00:32:22,470
strict sort of dtpa which is diphtheria

816
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:26,580
tetanus and pertussis the a stands for a

817
00:32:31,100 --> 00:32:29,490
cellular so it's the new Tasos vaccine

818
00:32:33,710 --> 00:32:31,110
which is less likely to cause a reaction

819
00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:33,720
and they all cellular products whereas

820
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:37,470
vaccine that's fantastic you as a GP do

821
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:40,170
you get many parents coming to you I'm

822
00:32:45,170 --> 00:32:42,330
sure as to whether to vaccinate or not

823
00:32:47,810 --> 00:32:45,180
not many with this tends to be a fairly

824
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:47,820
educated area yeah but we have the odd

825
00:32:52,550 --> 00:32:49,890
person we have a we're proud to say that

826
00:32:55,370 --> 00:32:52,560
our all out of all the children are

827
00:32:56,780 --> 00:32:55,380
registered with this practice in excess

828
00:32:59,450 --> 00:32:56,790
of ninety five percent of fully

829
00:33:00,530 --> 00:32:59,460
immunized and out of the other five

830
00:33:02,570 --> 00:33:00,540
percent they're usually

831
00:33:04,190 --> 00:33:02,580
people who've forgotten or need

832
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:04,200
reminding and they eventually catch up

833
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:07,650
where I've been one or two who who have

834
00:33:14,540 --> 00:33:11,850
had doubts who've been misled by by

835
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:14,550
misinformation yeah from various places

836
00:33:20,330 --> 00:33:17,130
you had immunization and some people who

837
00:33:22,670 --> 00:33:20,340
are just ordinary Dalls I oh yeah but

838
00:33:24,170 --> 00:33:22,680
most of them you know by the vast

839
00:33:27,050 --> 00:33:24,180
majority had come into their

840
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:27,060
vaccinations and very keen to do so well

841
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:28,890
if especially I couldn't open the test

842
00:33:32,690 --> 00:33:30,570
to the needle Sheamus business e I

843
00:33:34,370 --> 00:33:32,700
hardly felt it all in fact if I was

844
00:33:35,690 --> 00:33:34,380
happen to be having asleep and you did

845
00:33:37,550 --> 00:33:35,700
that I wouldn't have even woken up

846
00:33:39,740 --> 00:33:37,560
that's like they used to vaccinate March

847
00:33:43,550 --> 00:33:39,750
or and Molly were asleep oh really yeah

848
00:33:45,740 --> 00:33:43,560
I never ever woke up well thank you very

849
00:33:47,660 --> 00:33:45,750
much dr. Gordon I feel fine I've a

850
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:47,670
little band-aid and I look forward to my

851
00:33:52,730 --> 00:33:50,130
jelly bean absolutely what color would

852
00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:52,740
you like Richie ah it's just like oh wow

853
00:33:58,430 --> 00:33:56,220
oh thanks um it goes the first one that

854
00:34:15,180 --> 00:33:58,440
comes out of the lid purple purple thank

855
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:17,970
let's all take this with a grain of salt

856
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:26,240
he's around ticket hello this is a run

857
00:34:31,690 --> 00:34:28,570
segev taking life with a grain of salt

858
00:34:33,580 --> 00:34:31,700
george w bush had a proud reputation of

859
00:34:36,220 --> 00:34:33,590
sticking to his guns and not changing

860
00:34:38,830 --> 00:34:36,230
his mind when a change of course was

861
00:34:40,780 --> 00:34:38,840
required as often happens in life it was

862
00:34:43,149 --> 00:34:40,790
either ignored or accompanied by huge

863
00:34:44,770 --> 00:34:43,159
amounts of spin designed to show that it

864
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:44,780
was not really a change of course at all

865
00:34:50,169 --> 00:34:46,850
but a subtle tweak or an obvious

866
00:34:51,940 --> 00:34:50,179
continuation of the previous course the

867
00:34:53,470 --> 00:34:51,950
rudd government announced last week that

868
00:34:55,090 --> 00:34:53,480
he was going back on its campaign

869
00:34:57,970 --> 00:34:55,100
promise of a working emissions trading

870
00:35:00,550 --> 00:34:57,980
scheme by 2010 mostly due to the

871
00:35:02,410 --> 00:35:00,560
downturn in the global economy the

872
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:02,420
change has seen the government adopting

873
00:35:06,670 --> 00:35:04,160
a scheme which looks very much like it

874
00:35:08,410 --> 00:35:06,680
was penned by the opposition you would

875
00:35:10,810 --> 00:35:08,420
expect the opposition to be delighted

876
00:35:12,910 --> 00:35:10,820
with this change he turns out that they

877
00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:12,920
were but not for the reasons that would

878
00:35:17,530 --> 00:35:14,720
seem obvious to the politically naive

879
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:17,540
onlooker they spent the next few days

880
00:35:20,890 --> 00:35:19,130
gleefully pronouncing that the

881
00:35:22,780 --> 00:35:20,900
government has black backflipped and

882
00:35:25,570 --> 00:35:22,790
threatening to block the change in the

883
00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:25,580
Senate I could probably spend the next

884
00:35:29,830 --> 00:35:27,730
hour giving examples of politicians

885
00:35:31,870 --> 00:35:29,840
treating a change of position as

886
00:35:34,060 --> 00:35:31,880
something to be ashamed of but I think

887
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:34,070
the examples I gave red are sufficient

888
00:35:38,980 --> 00:35:36,290
to represent a political culture that is

889
00:35:40,750 --> 00:35:38,990
very common in Western democracies in a

890
00:35:42,490 --> 00:35:40,760
democracy parties need to differentiate

891
00:35:45,250 --> 00:35:42,500
themselves from other parties to create

892
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:45,260
a political identity it is not at all

893
00:35:50,260 --> 00:35:47,450
surprising that parties advertising

894
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:50,270
consultants and PR companies they do so

895
00:35:54,490 --> 00:35:52,160
because parties are as much as a brand

896
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:54,500
as any major companies there will

897
00:35:58,290 --> 00:35:56,480
usually be some overarching ideological

898
00:36:00,610 --> 00:35:58,300
framework to positions on various topics

899
00:36:01,990 --> 00:36:00,620
so you could expect for example a

900
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:02,000
Conservative Party to adopt

901
00:36:06,190 --> 00:36:03,920
traditionally conservative positions and

902
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:06,200
a Liberal Party to adopt liberal

903
00:36:11,070 --> 00:36:08,960
positions but some topics are simply not

904
00:36:13,690 --> 00:36:11,080
easy to stick an ideological label on

905
00:36:15,220 --> 00:36:13,700
for example there is very little

906
00:36:16,990 --> 00:36:15,230
difference between the positions of the

907
00:36:18,109 --> 00:36:17,000
two major parties in Australia when it

908
00:36:20,749 --> 00:36:18,119
comes to education

909
00:36:22,609 --> 00:36:20,759
labour might provide less funding to

910
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:22,619
private schools and the liberal-national

911
00:36:27,739 --> 00:36:25,170
coalition might demand a flagpole be

912
00:36:29,930 --> 00:36:27,749
erected in every school but by and large

913
00:36:32,749 --> 00:36:29,940
the differences are minor and often

914
00:36:34,599 --> 00:36:32,759
almost arbitrary when it is difficult to

915
00:36:37,249 --> 00:36:34,609
choose a position based on ideology

916
00:36:39,410 --> 00:36:37,259
parties would generally form one based

917
00:36:40,789 --> 00:36:39,420
on practical considerations which will

918
00:36:44,019 --> 00:36:40,799
often cause the other party or parties

919
00:36:46,460 --> 00:36:44,029
to choose Anna pop in opposing position

920
00:36:48,259 --> 00:36:46,470
reading the list of policies of the two

921
00:36:51,289 --> 00:36:48,269
major political parties in Australia

922
00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:51,299
from the 2007 elections it is obvious

923
00:36:55,009 --> 00:36:52,950
that the vast majority of policies are

924
00:36:57,349 --> 00:36:55,019
not based on ideology in any significant

925
00:36:58,970 --> 00:36:57,359
way you would expect that this would

926
00:37:00,829 --> 00:36:58,980
allow better cooperation between the

927
00:37:02,390 --> 00:37:00,839
parties and allow the more freedom to

928
00:37:05,420 --> 00:37:02,400
change policies based on changing

929
00:37:07,339 --> 00:37:05,430
conditions but that is not the case the

930
00:37:10,940 --> 00:37:07,349
reality is that political expedience

931
00:37:12,410 --> 00:37:10,950
Trump's logic almost every time one of

932
00:37:14,749 --> 00:37:12,420
the reasons for the success of the

933
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:14,759
scientific endeavor is that scientists

934
00:37:18,519 --> 00:37:16,410
changed their views and opinions when

935
00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:18,529
evidence shows them to have been wrong

936
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:20,910
scientists being human do not enjoy

937
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:23,130
being wrong it is not rare for

938
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:24,960
scientists to initially reject evidence

939
00:37:28,430 --> 00:37:26,249
that shows them to have been wrong in

940
00:37:30,109 --> 00:37:28,440
their conclusion but most scientists

941
00:37:32,349 --> 00:37:30,119
will eventually accept the evidence if

942
00:37:34,609 --> 00:37:32,359
it is solid enough more importantly

943
00:37:36,589 --> 00:37:34,619
science as a whole will accept even

944
00:37:38,569 --> 00:37:36,599
paradigm-shifting evidence if it is

945
00:37:39,799 --> 00:37:38,579
strong enough and regardless of the

946
00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:39,809
feeling of a science of a specific

947
00:37:45,470 --> 00:37:42,960
scientist and most importantly being

948
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:45,480
wrong is not considered a failure every

949
00:37:49,329 --> 00:37:47,970
scientists no matter how successful can

950
00:37:51,170 --> 00:37:49,339
point to at least a few ideas

951
00:37:52,819 --> 00:37:51,180
experiments and articles that were

952
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:52,829
thought to be correct but eventually

953
00:37:57,829 --> 00:37:55,710
shown to be wrong the approach of

954
00:38:00,289 --> 00:37:57,839
accepting errors learning from them and

955
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:00,299
moving on allows scientific knowledge to

956
00:38:05,299 --> 00:38:03,210
grow since this is such an important

957
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:05,309
part of science and since science is

958
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:06,930
probably the most successful of human

959
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:09,210
endeavors you would expect this approach

960
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:12,210
to be adopted by other fields perhaps it

961
00:38:16,759 --> 00:38:14,130
has in some areas but it certainly

962
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:16,769
hasn't in politics a politician who

963
00:38:20,690 --> 00:38:18,930
changes his or her mind is considered

964
00:38:23,509 --> 00:38:20,700
weak and could pay a heavy political

965
00:38:25,370 --> 00:38:23,519
price the opposite side is short to

966
00:38:27,559 --> 00:38:25,380
pounce and use the occasion to attack

967
00:38:30,079 --> 00:38:27,569
not just the new position but also the

968
00:38:31,069 --> 00:38:30,089
change of mind that underlying

969
00:38:32,779 --> 00:38:31,079
assumptions may

970
00:38:34,609 --> 00:38:32,789
changed or conditions might be different

971
00:38:37,519 --> 00:38:34,619
is a little consequence in the political

972
00:38:38,569 --> 00:38:37,529
game you have to be strong if you show

973
00:38:40,549 --> 00:38:38,579
conviction despite evidence

974
00:38:43,999 --> 00:38:40,559
contradicting your views you are showing

975
00:38:46,279 --> 00:38:44,009
leadership this culture obviously leads

976
00:38:48,559 --> 00:38:46,289
to some absurdities when a policy no

977
00:38:50,180 --> 00:38:48,569
longer no longer makes sense due to new

978
00:38:52,279 --> 00:38:50,190
information or a change of conditions

979
00:38:54,829 --> 00:38:52,289
but it is kept simply so that the

980
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:54,839
politicians don't lose face wouldn't it

981
00:38:58,819 --> 00:38:56,880
be nice if politicians could stand on a

982
00:39:00,729 --> 00:38:58,829
podium and simply declare that the old

983
00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:00,739
policy has been rejected or changed

984
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:02,910
explain the reasons for such a change

985
00:39:06,799 --> 00:39:04,890
and not be concerned that the change

986
00:39:09,380 --> 00:39:06,809
itself would supply ammunition to their

987
00:39:11,959 --> 00:39:09,390
opponents I think it is possible to

988
00:39:13,489 --> 00:39:11,969
change this culture the way to change it

989
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:13,499
requires some courage and a willingness

990
00:39:18,079 --> 00:39:15,930
to take risks but political leaders can

991
00:39:20,049 --> 00:39:18,089
do it they need to start by making

992
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:20,059
changes when they are necessary and

993
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:22,079
announcing them without delay and

994
00:39:26,959 --> 00:39:23,609
without trying to hide the fact that

995
00:39:28,249 --> 00:39:26,969
change of mind has occurred then when

996
00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:28,259
they are mocked for being weak in

997
00:39:31,940 --> 00:39:30,209
changing their minds they could be

998
00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:31,950
taught by asking whether the Honorable

999
00:39:35,359 --> 00:39:33,839
member opposite thinks that it is

1000
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:35,369
prudent to maintain one's position

1001
00:39:40,279 --> 00:39:38,160
despite changing circumstances they

1002
00:39:42,949 --> 00:39:40,289
could then go on to give an example of

1003
00:39:44,689 --> 00:39:42,959
where it would be absurd to do so they

1004
00:39:46,670 --> 00:39:44,699
could use the success of science to show

1005
00:39:49,549 --> 00:39:46,680
how following evidence and rejecting all

1006
00:39:51,739 --> 00:39:49,559
truisms leads to progress if this

1007
00:39:53,779 --> 00:39:51,749
process happened often enough and if

1008
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:53,789
politicians use their sharp tongues to

1009
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:55,650
mock their opponents for not realizing

1010
00:40:00,229 --> 00:39:58,079
the change of opinion is a positive the

1011
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:00,239
public perception could change and the

1012
00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:24,750
so we found another one here to the

1013
00:40:32,780 --> 00:40:27,040
memory of mary elizabeth first child of

1014
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:32,790
robert and marcia marcia to dl sooth

1015
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:37,210
1851 died 15 months and one way and one

1016
00:40:41,849 --> 00:40:39,760
day oh yes there was it's the stone is a

1017
00:40:43,740 --> 00:40:41,859
bit worn we're actually in the cemetery

1018
00:40:46,109 --> 00:40:43,750
here in Newtown in Sydney it's a very

1019
00:40:48,030 --> 00:40:46,119
old cemetery it's not used anymore I

1020
00:40:52,530 --> 00:40:48,040
don't think and it's sort of like the

1021
00:40:54,660 --> 00:40:52,540
classic overgrown headstone type Warren

1022
00:40:57,570 --> 00:40:54,670
cemetery isn't it Rachel yeah with a lot

1023
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:57,580
of broken headstones and unreadable

1024
00:41:01,410 --> 00:40:59,680
headstones because they're so ancient so

1025
00:41:04,109 --> 00:41:01,420
what we have discovered just walking

1026
00:41:07,109 --> 00:41:04,119
around here how many of them belong to

1027
00:41:09,780 --> 00:41:07,119
children two more in this one this is 9

1028
00:41:12,770 --> 00:41:09,790
18 months in three days and area all

1029
00:41:15,690 --> 00:41:12,780
citizens died 30th of June same here

1030
00:41:18,329 --> 00:41:15,700
over here 18 months over here and across

1031
00:41:20,359 --> 00:41:18,339
the other side of the where we were just

1032
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:20,369
near the fence there were lots of

1033
00:41:25,589 --> 00:41:23,290
children lots of children here and this

1034
00:41:28,230 --> 00:41:25,599
is all sort of eighteen eighteen

1035
00:41:30,030 --> 00:41:28,240
hundreds yeah fifty year and then 54 on

1036
00:41:31,620 --> 00:41:30,040
this one here I'm sure if we walk around

1037
00:41:35,849 --> 00:41:31,630
here and there are hundreds and hundreds

1038
00:41:38,130 --> 00:41:35,859
of them headstones although it's a very

1039
00:41:41,770 --> 00:41:38,140
nice setting on I say it looks it takes

1040
00:41:45,710 --> 00:41:44,450
no yet mistake a couple of mummy you

1041
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:45,720
don't find too many there's one over

1042
00:41:54,290 --> 00:41:51,450
there janji church died ere 1901 age 71

1043
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:54,300
years oh that's William Saunders William

1044
00:42:00,920 --> 00:41:56,610
Saunders look William Saunders died on

1045
00:42:05,350 --> 00:42:00,930
the 7th of Olga caged we can't 30 years

1046
00:42:09,020 --> 00:42:05,360
it's all one I can't read what it says

1047
00:42:11,180 --> 00:42:09,030
is that the same as the Richard Saunders

1048
00:42:12,770 --> 00:42:11,190
who got deported from England for

1049
00:42:18,140 --> 00:42:12,780
stealing a chicken oh you have to say

1050
00:42:20,450 --> 00:42:18,150
that you had you had to say that that

1051
00:42:22,730 --> 00:42:20,460
wasn't me folks it was one of my distant

1052
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:22,740
ancestors was deported from England in

1053
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:24,210
the days when they used to shove the

1054
00:42:31,220 --> 00:42:26,570
convicts out here for stealing a chicken

1055
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:31,230
Rachel won't let me forget it really how

1056
00:42:38,510 --> 00:42:33,690
yet rush aged nine months four days

1057
00:42:41,180 --> 00:42:38,520
Rachel rush oh yeah dido less than five

1058
00:42:43,700 --> 00:42:41,190
months Alvin Ernest rush for months and

1059
00:42:45,770 --> 00:42:43,710
four days after Henry rush age three

1060
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:45,780
weeks three weeks cloth and Charles rush

1061
00:42:50,180 --> 00:42:48,330
I can't we have down further which just

1062
00:42:53,630 --> 00:42:50,190
reinforces to us because we've been

1063
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:53,640
thinking about all this these people who

1064
00:43:00,320 --> 00:42:55,770
wish to bring back the glorious days of

1065
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:00,330
anti-vaccination lack of vaccination but

1066
00:43:03,650 --> 00:43:02,010
they should come and visit this

1067
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:03,660
graveyard and have a look to see what

1068
00:43:07,220 --> 00:43:05,730
the consequences of that would be the

1069
00:43:08,780 --> 00:43:07,230
hope your mother was known in those days

1070
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:08,790
it's two of it years old her geography

1071
00:43:13,310 --> 00:43:10,890
oh yeah there's a strong 100 years ago

1072
00:43:16,070 --> 00:43:13,320
as it is now well why didn't work then I

1073
00:43:18,350 --> 00:43:16,080
wonder it's interesting also to note

1074
00:43:20,660 --> 00:43:18,360
Richards that a lot of the adults that

1075
00:43:23,570 --> 00:43:20,670
has passed here quite a lot of them are

1076
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:23,580
sort of late 30s early 40s yes there are

1077
00:43:27,500 --> 00:43:25,050
not many that are in the sixth seasons

1078
00:43:29,690 --> 00:43:27,510
not many at all not very life the life

1079
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:29,700
span of people back in the 1800s was

1080
00:43:35,210 --> 00:43:31,440
much less than is today and I wonder

1081
00:43:39,860 --> 00:43:35,220
what that we can tribute that to modern

1082
00:43:41,210 --> 00:43:39,870
medicine to had perhaps perhaps now I'm

1083
00:43:42,890 --> 00:43:41,220
surprised to see how many of these

1084
00:43:44,690 --> 00:43:42,900
gravestones are common ones like there's

1085
00:43:46,850 --> 00:43:44,700
a whole family of little kids four or

1086
00:43:48,860 --> 00:43:46,860
five is the father there the child aged

1087
00:43:50,570 --> 00:43:48,870
three months was be able to be buried

1088
00:43:52,849 --> 00:43:50,580
here first the father died later yeah

1089
00:43:57,499 --> 00:43:52,859
obviously then James another son aged

1090
00:43:59,660 --> 00:43:57,509
years baby the same place kids under the

1091
00:44:06,760 --> 00:43:59,670
age of five there's an awful lot of kids

1092
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:08,680
it's a pity we can't actually make out

1093
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:15,170
some of them as the airline goes

1094
00:44:29,820 --> 00:44:22,770
what's that one februari 1867 died 25th

1095
00:44:33,810 --> 00:44:29,830
November 867 so less than 12 months so

1096
00:44:35,490 --> 00:44:33,820
there you go so if you think that you'd

1097
00:44:38,810 --> 00:44:35,500
like to live in the glorious days of

1098
00:44:42,330 --> 00:44:38,820
natural living with no need for

1099
00:44:45,090 --> 00:44:42,340
immunization and modern medicine just

1100
00:44:48,420 --> 00:44:45,100
living off what nature intended come to

1101
00:44:49,980 --> 00:44:48,430
new town cemetery and then tell me about

1102
00:44:52,350 --> 00:44:49,990
it don't forget Richard one of the other

1103
00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:52,360
things that these people claim that has

1104
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:54,640
changed since these times that we're

1105
00:45:00,720 --> 00:44:56,530
looking at here is that we now have

1106
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:00,730
better sanitation and better hygiene but

1107
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:02,890
whilst that is true I hardly think that

1108
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:06,400
can be attributed to the doubling and

1109
00:45:15,090 --> 00:45:09,040
the age expectancy roughly of people and

1110
00:45:17,820 --> 00:45:15,100
the dramatic almost unbelievable cut in

1111
00:45:19,620 --> 00:45:17,830
the rate of infant mortality we have now

1112
00:45:21,540 --> 00:45:19,630
in our society compared to what these

1113
00:45:24,060 --> 00:45:21,550
people would have lived or died with I

1114
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:24,070
mean these were the days when things

1115
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:27,130
like tuberculosis was around more pox

1116
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:31,930
small parks Shore flu flu pandemics the

1117
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:34,240
kid next to me in primary school died at

1118
00:45:37,740 --> 00:45:36,490
the age of seven when I was seven

1119
00:45:40,349 --> 00:45:37,750
wickedest we dropped dead of

1120
00:45:44,730 --> 00:45:40,359
tuberculosis really yep there I went to

1121
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:44,740
my morning and it was empty so that was

1122
00:45:49,290 --> 00:45:46,720
the end of a theory on this as well he

1123
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:49,300
was but these are also the times when

1124
00:45:52,770 --> 00:45:51,130
people would have lots and lots of kids

1125
00:45:55,020 --> 00:45:52,780
because I expected that some of them

1126
00:45:56,550 --> 00:45:55,030
would make it well they'd have a kid

1127
00:46:00,540 --> 00:45:56,560
that were dying that and then one

1128
00:46:01,859 --> 00:46:00,550
nothing I guess to be blunt I mean that

1129
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:01,869
you can see it on the headstones here

1130
00:46:05,609 --> 00:46:03,250
though I'm sort of through some of them

1131
00:46:07,650 --> 00:46:05,619
four or five pictures yes family is that

1132
00:46:09,210 --> 00:46:07,660
must have died under the age of one and

1133
00:46:15,620 --> 00:46:09,220
them must have been pretty pretty happy

1134
00:46:17,970 --> 00:46:15,630
just waiting yeah anyway perhaps some

1135
00:46:19,470 --> 00:46:17,980
Merrill might like Mel dory might like

1136
00:46:21,180 --> 00:46:19,480
to come and visit the cemetery at any

1137
00:46:24,829 --> 00:46:21,190
time maybe she can reflect a little

1138
00:46:33,309 --> 00:46:24,839
maybe she'll death here

1139
00:46:37,819 --> 00:46:35,509
if you're looking for research on

1140
00:46:40,039 --> 00:46:37,829
skepticism and women gender issues the

1141
00:46:44,390 --> 00:46:40,049
facts about superstition education and

1142
00:46:46,789 --> 00:46:44,400
the wonder of science head to www com

1143
00:46:49,069 --> 00:46:46,799
the site of pot black cat it's been

1144
00:46:51,079 --> 00:46:49,079
described by dr. ben goldacre as a blog

1145
00:46:55,059 --> 00:46:51,089
that wins on timeliness accuracy

1146
00:47:13,640 --> 00:46:55,069
relevance and well rather silly names

1147
00:47:16,609 --> 00:47:13,650
wwwdcom and what do you think join us

1148
00:47:25,450 --> 00:47:16,619
now for drinking skeptically in the

1149
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:28,010
and it's a bumper think tank tonight

1150
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:30,240
everybody we have a room full of people

1151
00:47:34,340 --> 00:47:32,970
you people in the back just so I try and

1152
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:34,350
sit down over there it's all right you

1153
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:36,450
can come up later the microphone Lee let

1154
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:38,640
me introduce the regulars of the semi

1155
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:40,170
regulars of the people you know and love

1156
00:47:45,230 --> 00:47:43,290
we have dr. rachey hello dr. HS hi

1157
00:47:46,610 --> 00:47:45,240
Richard thank you for coming along to

1158
00:47:48,170 --> 00:47:46,620
the thing thing tonight can you hear me

1159
00:47:49,580 --> 00:47:48,180
over all the noise of all the people in

1160
00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:49,590
the background I can show you other

1161
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:52,710
people about that because and we have we

1162
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:55,290
have Ian gray in other hello good to see

1163
00:47:58,700 --> 00:47:57,210
you back again and of course what would

1164
00:48:01,130 --> 00:47:58,710
the think tank be occasionally without

1165
00:48:02,810 --> 00:48:01,140
Dave the happy singer hi Laura cello and

1166
00:48:05,090 --> 00:48:02,820
we have a special guest up from

1167
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:05,100
Melbourne their own skeptics UFO expert

1168
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:07,440
he must have come on a UFO Steve Roberts

1169
00:48:12,290 --> 00:48:10,410
hello Richard hello Steve in fact I was

1170
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:12,300
just commenting before that of all the

1171
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:14,160
episodes of the skeptic zone the one

1172
00:48:18,380 --> 00:48:15,810
that has the most downloads is the one

1173
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:18,390
where you discuss UFOs the space areas

1174
00:48:24,050 --> 00:48:22,770
like that one best and we have another

1175
00:48:25,940 --> 00:48:24,060
we have two other people who've come

1176
00:48:28,430 --> 00:48:25,950
along to join us note we have Jason

1177
00:48:30,140 --> 00:48:28,440
hello Jason I Richard are you going I'm

1178
00:48:32,690 --> 00:48:30,150
going alright how are you fine what's

1179
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:32,700
your remind us again what's your twitter

1180
00:48:38,420 --> 00:48:35,930
name my twitter name is a drunken madmen

1181
00:48:40,730 --> 00:48:38,430
drunken madness let's say professor

1182
00:48:42,650 --> 00:48:40,740
layton i see you've got two beers in

1183
00:48:45,860 --> 00:48:42,660
front of you through it one of them

1184
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:45,870
stolen and james breedings the citation

1185
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:56,060
pastor without without the man at

1186
00:48:59,360 --> 00:48:57,810
the end it's great that you could all

1187
00:49:01,700 --> 00:48:59,370
come along tonight for the think tank

1188
00:49:04,490 --> 00:49:01,710
now I do it I'm going to start off

1189
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:04,500
straight away the question that was

1190
00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:07,130
written in by one of our listeners Dave

1191
00:49:13,130 --> 00:49:10,710
but Dave not you don't me Oh another day

1192
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:13,140
there are others that are others he's

1193
00:49:17,900 --> 00:49:14,880
wanting to know and he's asking our

1194
00:49:19,390 --> 00:49:17,910
advice what can he say if he's walking

1195
00:49:22,090 --> 00:49:19,400
along the street he's confronted by

1196
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:22,100
fanatics religious fanatics who say

1197
00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:24,240
whatever the particular religion is

1198
00:49:28,490 --> 00:49:26,730
usually Christianity Jesus will come in

1199
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:28,500
his fiery chariot and save you and

1200
00:49:35,090 --> 00:49:30,930
Madame he wants and he was after

1201
00:49:36,590 --> 00:49:35,100
something short and quick and easy to

1202
00:49:39,650 --> 00:49:36,600
say back to them

1203
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:39,660
and I am trying to think of something

1204
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:41,970
and I don't know if there really is

1205
00:49:45,530 --> 00:49:43,770
something you can throw back at them

1206
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:45,540
that would could possibly stump them or

1207
00:49:49,490 --> 00:49:47,040
make them think I don't think it works

1208
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:49,500
that way there's a lot of thinking

1209
00:49:52,730 --> 00:49:50,970
around the table round you know people

1210
00:49:54,380 --> 00:49:52,740
bang on my door I try to say I'm an

1211
00:49:56,030 --> 00:49:54,390
atheist and they they wouldn't accept

1212
00:49:57,980 --> 00:49:56,040
that you know anything wouldn't go away

1213
00:50:00,320 --> 00:49:57,990
they had questions ready for atheists

1214
00:50:03,140 --> 00:50:00,330
yeah I've had episodes they look just

1215
00:50:04,460 --> 00:50:03,150
bugger off they used I used to be able

1216
00:50:06,050 --> 00:50:04,470
to get rid of them by saying I'm an

1217
00:50:07,460 --> 00:50:06,060
atheist and a scientist and then they

1218
00:50:09,530 --> 00:50:07,470
just back away with their hands in the

1219
00:50:11,390 --> 00:50:09,540
air but now they've got literature on

1220
00:50:14,630 --> 00:50:11,400
how to convince scientists who are

1221
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:14,640
atheists seriously it's all your fortune

1222
00:50:18,470 --> 00:50:16,890
is carefully saying how you can also

1223
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:18,480
believe in God if you're a scientist

1224
00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:20,490
they have it did it work of course not

1225
00:50:25,090 --> 00:50:23,250
but they kept coming back and I think it

1226
00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:25,100
was you Dave that pointed out to me that

1227
00:50:30,830 --> 00:50:28,800
um my mistake was the first time I took

1228
00:50:32,390 --> 00:50:30,840
their literature and somebody told me

1229
00:50:35,630 --> 00:50:32,400
that they then put you on their list and

1230
00:50:36,980 --> 00:50:35,640
they just keep coming back yeah I quite

1231
00:50:38,330 --> 00:50:36,990
like that you know there's this free

1232
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:38,340
phone number you can ring up give you

1233
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:39,570
address and they'll bring around our

1234
00:50:43,820 --> 00:50:42,690
DVDs in person never allows I love it

1235
00:50:45,350 --> 00:50:43,830
they can come in that can have a cup of

1236
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:45,360
tea you see you know unlike you

1237
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:47,370
correspondent I like to I like to

1238
00:50:51,170 --> 00:50:48,810
actually talk to them and I and have

1239
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:51,180
some fun with them YUM and it's if that

1240
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:52,530
if they're just shouting and screaming

1241
00:50:56,300 --> 00:50:54,930
out then you know sometimes it's

1242
00:50:59,120 --> 00:50:56,310
difficult to get an in sometimes you

1243
00:51:00,440 --> 00:50:59,130
just gotta shout back but if they're

1244
00:51:02,270 --> 00:51:00,450
going to come up and ask you after you

1245
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:02,280
ask you questions I mean then then you

1246
00:51:05,810 --> 00:51:04,050
just get into the kind of the general

1247
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:05,820
thing of engaging with the I've done

1248
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:11,010
this with mormons yes Baumann's are a

1249
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:12,810
couple of Mormon missionaries near the

1250
00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:14,730
elder who's like 14 or whatever it is

1251
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:17,910
and it took half an hour and at the end

1252
00:51:21,650 --> 00:51:20,130
of it there's no put down a line which

1253
00:51:24,530 --> 00:51:21,660
makes them go away and think it doesn't

1254
00:51:25,850 --> 00:51:24,540
work that way i don't think oh I don't

1255
00:51:27,350 --> 00:51:25,860
you were you certainly not going to d

1256
00:51:30,260 --> 00:51:27,360
convert them know you have a lot of a

1257
00:51:31,970 --> 00:51:30,270
lot of fun and stretchy stretchy

1258
00:51:33,620 --> 00:51:31,980
debating skills I don't spread it spread

1259
00:51:35,870 --> 00:51:33,630
your wings I agree you're so inclined

1260
00:51:37,850 --> 00:51:35,880
you learn a lot from that yeah yeah

1261
00:51:41,780 --> 00:51:37,860
totally and then great learning

1262
00:51:44,970 --> 00:51:41,790
experience can't answer off the spot and

1263
00:51:46,980 --> 00:51:44,980
you've got a chance to to go away and

1264
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:46,990
discover more about yourself in your own

1265
00:51:51,930 --> 00:51:49,330
religion and it's a good thing there's a

1266
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:51,940
great website called I am chariots dog I

1267
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:54,160
in cherry I am Jerry up she hasn't

1268
00:52:00,810 --> 00:51:56,770
chariots made of iron yeah which is run

1269
00:52:04,109 --> 00:52:00,820
by the Atheist community of Austin and

1270
00:52:06,180 --> 00:52:04,119
it's a counter apologetics wiki so it's

1271
00:52:08,099 --> 00:52:06,190
a wiki based software and it's got you

1272
00:52:10,349 --> 00:52:08,109
know common arguments in favor of the

1273
00:52:12,060 --> 00:52:10,359
existence of God and you know lots of

1274
00:52:13,830 --> 00:52:12,070
the sort of thing that comes up when

1275
00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:13,840
you're talking to so I guess I guess

1276
00:52:17,940 --> 00:52:16,480
dave who wrote in to us there is no easy

1277
00:52:21,810 --> 00:52:17,950
and there is there is what you just say

1278
00:52:24,510 --> 00:52:21,820
thanks I've already got one what you

1279
00:52:26,099 --> 00:52:24,520
made a god there's no answer to that I'd

1280
00:52:29,580 --> 00:52:26,109
share my usual response but this is a

1281
00:52:31,470 --> 00:52:29,590
family-friendly show you it is it's a PG

1282
00:52:32,700 --> 00:52:31,480
rated show it's a be gr8 I like the

1283
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:32,710
pseudo-scientists we don't have an

1284
00:52:37,590 --> 00:52:35,650
explicit tag on it that Jack Scanlon he

1285
00:52:39,780 --> 00:52:37,600
swears like his grandmother really have

1286
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:39,790
you told his mom he told Jack's mother I

1287
00:52:46,140 --> 00:52:41,770
haven't told you know Jamie Thomas

1288
00:52:48,210 --> 00:52:46,150
Crapper rejects Graham a big shout-out

1289
00:52:52,770 --> 00:52:48,220
to the young Australian skeptics of

1290
00:52:55,170 --> 00:52:52,780
course and what and we're seeing in a

1291
00:52:58,170 --> 00:52:55,180
couple of weeks yeah Rachel myself Dave

1292
00:53:01,410 --> 00:52:58,180
the happy singer um I'm you're

1293
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:01,420
excellent and Who am I get there

1294
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:04,330
early you literally load already clear

1295
00:53:08,190 --> 00:53:06,730
hurry yes I'm not far ahead I must dig

1296
00:53:09,750 --> 00:53:08,200
up jacket is in year 12 now she just

1297
00:53:11,790 --> 00:53:09,760
down the road from where I live so I'm

1298
00:53:13,770 --> 00:53:11,800
assuming messages they will if you have

1299
00:53:15,900 --> 00:53:13,780
transport I can come and see you yeah

1300
00:53:19,950 --> 00:53:15,910
what Jack show you I'll shut your token

1301
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:19,960
code or something he's talking Jack

1302
00:53:37,260 --> 00:53:34,720
Scanlon no I will 17 but we digress

1303
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:37,270
because as our listeners will probably

1304
00:53:40,380 --> 00:53:38,800
already know a rachel and i will be

1305
00:53:42,570 --> 00:53:40,390
giving some talks and dave the happy

1306
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:42,580
singer will be singing in elburn at the

1307
00:53:48,570 --> 00:53:44,530
end of the month check out skeptics and

1308
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:48,580
on TV or the young ask pasta sauce q

1309
00:53:56,550 --> 00:53:52,090
haces aus aus skeptics calm for more

1310
00:53:58,440 --> 00:53:56,560
details now oh why I'm shouting out and

1311
00:53:59,140 --> 00:53:58,450
doing things like that showed up to a

1312
00:54:01,150 --> 00:53:59,150
listen

1313
00:54:02,710 --> 00:54:01,160
we have called Ben Hadfield who wrote in

1314
00:54:04,900 --> 00:54:02,720
to me thank you been I really appreciate

1315
00:54:07,150 --> 00:54:04,910
your comments very kind of you we're

1316
00:54:10,270 --> 00:54:07,160
doing shoutouts can I do a shower yes oh

1317
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:10,280
just sit like that nanner um I want to

1318
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:12,050
give a shout out to Scott from toronto

1319
00:54:16,450 --> 00:54:14,690
now Scott is a pharmacist in Toronto and

1320
00:54:20,860 --> 00:54:16,460
he writes a really great blog called

1321
00:54:23,860 --> 00:54:20,870
science-based pharmacy and in fact I was

1322
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:23,870
i referred to him on the SGU interview i

1323
00:54:29,010 --> 00:54:25,850
did last week that was Tommy you on SGU

1324
00:54:31,150 --> 00:54:29,020
Rachel I'm sorry did I not mention that

1325
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:31,160
well that's GU I've never heard of him

1326
00:54:35,860 --> 00:54:34,370
really yes this is little podcast you

1327
00:54:37,210 --> 00:54:35,870
probably haven't heard of it hasn't been

1328
00:54:39,970 --> 00:54:37,220
around for more than around four years

1329
00:54:41,350 --> 00:54:39,980
or something yeah that was a good

1330
00:54:42,970 --> 00:54:41,360
interviewer a chat that I enjoy that

1331
00:54:45,220 --> 00:54:42,980
thoroughly well thanks no it was good

1332
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:45,230
thanks to Steve for inviting me on the

1333
00:54:49,180 --> 00:54:47,330
show but on in that interview I

1334
00:54:52,690 --> 00:54:49,190
mentioned a friend of mine from Toronto

1335
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:52,700
who told me that he candles are for sale

1336
00:54:58,960 --> 00:54:56,450
in canada and i said i'd mentioned his

1337
00:55:00,940 --> 00:54:58,970
name so it's scott and he's from toronto

1338
00:55:03,550 --> 00:55:00,950
and his website again science-based

1339
00:55:05,260 --> 00:55:03,560
pharmacy good website really good

1340
00:55:07,930 --> 00:55:05,270
website and he's on twitter too yeah

1341
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:07,940
yeah he is pharmacist got on twitter or

1342
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:09,290
maybe i shouldn't say that he might not

1343
00:55:14,980 --> 00:55:11,330
want people following her who doesn't

1344
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:14,990
want done with the games for ya go and

1345
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:17,210
chase after farmer Scott does anybody of

1346
00:55:21,250 --> 00:55:19,370
anybody else have some shoutouts I want

1347
00:55:23,980 --> 00:55:21,260
to show yeah well I just got a lovely

1348
00:55:27,250 --> 00:55:23,990
tweet from mr. underscore underscore

1349
00:55:29,110 --> 00:55:27,260
turtle mr. underscore underscore turtle

1350
00:55:30,550 --> 00:55:29,120
yeah on the way here the think tank is

1351
00:55:32,770 --> 00:55:30,560
easily one of the finest and best

1352
00:55:35,260 --> 00:55:32,780
executed concepts of any of the podcast

1353
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:35,270
I listened to Oh enjoy so thank you mr.

1354
00:55:38,740 --> 00:55:37,130
underscore underscore turtle that's very

1355
00:55:42,270 --> 00:55:38,750
very sweet of you I just got another one

1356
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:42,280
from some bloke called bastard she

1357
00:55:49,720 --> 00:55:44,810
saying saying stop tweeting and be

1358
00:55:51,250 --> 00:55:49,730
social is that goes over dinner Dave you

1359
00:55:54,220 --> 00:55:51,260
were just twittering and reading your

1360
00:55:55,930 --> 00:55:54,230
phone the whole time I like to be you

1361
00:55:57,820 --> 00:55:55,940
know well connected to my phone it's

1362
00:56:00,730 --> 00:55:57,830
multitasking it just not the real people

1363
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:00,740
around him oh that's right all right

1364
00:56:04,510 --> 00:56:02,690
Rachel would you like to take over so I

1365
00:56:07,500 --> 00:56:04,520
can have another glass of champagne sure

1366
00:56:11,020 --> 00:56:07,510
um I was going to talk briefly about

1367
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:11,030
Jennifer Jennifer Lopez or JLo jail oh

1368
00:56:14,980 --> 00:56:12,890
yeah Jenny from the block

1369
00:56:18,190 --> 00:56:14,990
or does anyone else know anything of it

1370
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:18,200
yes that's her she was once known as

1371
00:56:23,140 --> 00:56:21,290
benefi wasn't she she was doing better

1372
00:56:25,780 --> 00:56:23,150
for a while that's right that's why

1373
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:25,790
should a deliberate well he's very yeah

1374
00:56:31,330 --> 00:56:28,400
supposed to talk you know I don't have

1375
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:31,340
any evidence either way but I've got no

1376
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:32,690
reasons about it I think they were

1377
00:56:38,230 --> 00:56:35,450
diddling anyway she has got behind a

1378
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:38,240
campaign started by the March of Dimes

1379
00:56:43,390 --> 00:56:41,050
which is a public awareness campaign

1380
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:43,400
about educating new parents and their

1381
00:56:48,190 --> 00:56:45,050
families about pertussis or whooping

1382
00:56:51,250 --> 00:56:48,200
cough whooping god yeah and she has just

1383
00:56:54,030 --> 00:56:51,260
recently done a series of ads in which

1384
00:56:57,490 --> 00:56:54,040
when she talks about the dangers of

1385
00:57:00,250 --> 00:56:57,500
pertussis and warns parents about

1386
00:57:02,170 --> 00:57:00,260
getting vaccinated and she was also

1387
00:57:03,970 --> 00:57:02,180
involved in a march plays members

1388
00:57:06,300 --> 00:57:03,980
against times now five past nine at this

1389
00:57:08,350 --> 00:57:06,310
time the club's NH policies in place

1390
00:57:09,940 --> 00:57:08,360
carlton minors in the accompanying

1391
00:57:11,380 --> 00:57:09,950
poison Scotland from the premises

1392
00:57:13,390 --> 00:57:11,390
thinking well good-bye everybody

1393
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:13,400
Fletcher everybody who works in the

1394
00:57:21,820 --> 00:57:19,490
minors sorry rages I think when she saw

1395
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:21,830
me she was the honorary chairperson of

1396
00:57:27,940 --> 00:57:24,770
the march of dimes for babies which took

1397
00:57:31,150 --> 00:57:27,950
place recently in dis in columbia and

1398
00:57:33,460 --> 00:57:31,160
puerto rico and the website i had a look

1399
00:57:37,450 --> 00:57:33,470
at it today it's called sounds of

1400
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:37,460
pertussis and they've got the the little

1401
00:57:44,020 --> 00:57:41,050
sort of add that Jennifer Stano it

1402
00:57:48,340 --> 00:57:44,030
sounds like a jet simon and garfunkel al

1403
00:57:51,580 --> 00:57:48,350
that's right all of those relaxation CDs

1404
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:51,590
and we're so creates hello mom yeah you

1405
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:53,450
can get the sound of Wales now you get

1406
00:57:57,610 --> 00:57:55,370
the sound of pesos well you can if you

1407
00:57:59,860 --> 00:57:57,620
don't know I'm serious if you go to the

1408
00:58:01,690 --> 00:57:59,870
website you can actually play the sound

1409
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:01,700
of a baby with pertussis and it's not

1410
00:58:05,260 --> 00:58:03,290
pleasant well I'm not familiar that with

1411
00:58:08,500 --> 00:58:05,270
joyous anticipation it is not pleasant

1412
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:08,510
no I've heard that sound and it's just

1413
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:11,210
yeah it's really good it is it sounds

1414
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:13,010
like the pockets again i suffocate it's

1415
00:58:17,650 --> 00:58:15,290
awful so yeah that's that's a good that

1416
00:58:21,340 --> 00:58:17,660
she's got behind that and most people

1417
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:21,350
know that Amanda Peet is also supports

1418
00:58:24,990 --> 00:58:24,170
the probe acts or pro-science deciding

1419
00:58:28,500 --> 00:58:25,000
that I'm

1420
00:58:31,230 --> 00:58:28,510
I've never been a fan of jello but I've

1421
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:31,240
done dislike her it's just not my sphere

1422
00:58:35,670 --> 00:58:32,890
of things but suddenly I think I'm

1423
00:58:39,180 --> 00:58:35,680
becoming a fan well didn't she do GG

1424
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:39,190
that terrible movie was up Jill G she's

1425
00:58:47,850 --> 00:58:44,890
eating me yeah that was was it okay I

1426
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:47,860
don't know that was when she was beneful

1427
00:58:52,140 --> 00:58:50,010
yeah i'm not sure what i meant if he did

1428
00:58:54,210 --> 00:58:52,150
well this is outside my realm of

1429
00:58:57,270 --> 00:58:54,220
expertise it's good to see it's good to

1430
00:58:59,580 --> 00:58:57,280
see a major celebrity getting on the

1431
00:59:01,710 --> 00:58:59,590
course well the good thing about Amanda

1432
00:59:03,150 --> 00:59:01,720
Peet she's affiliated with the people

1433
00:59:04,770 --> 00:59:03,160
that have the vaccinate your baby dot

1434
00:59:06,420 --> 00:59:04,780
org website which is a really great

1435
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:06,430
website it just offers scientific

1436
00:59:12,390 --> 00:59:09,610
information for parents and her stand is

1437
00:59:14,370 --> 00:59:12,400
don't listen to celebrities listen to

1438
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:14,380
doctors and scientists what do we know

1439
00:59:18,540 --> 00:59:16,930
about vaccinations and she's doing that

1440
00:59:21,260 --> 00:59:18,550
in direct response obviously to Jenny

1441
00:59:23,940 --> 00:59:21,270
McCarthy and Jenny Barnett and the likes

1442
00:59:26,340 --> 00:59:23,950
saying you know what do we know about

1443
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:26,350
this stuff but she's using her celebrity

1444
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:28,570
to to make people aware of that so

1445
00:59:42,090 --> 00:59:30,850
that's that's a good thing as well yeah

1446
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:42,100
yeah so JLo from the blog yay I was

1447
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:44,890
speaking of pertussis a friend of ours

1448
00:59:50,970 --> 00:59:47,530
they that's a good segue so while you're

1449
00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:50,980
dead our treasurer on the Australian

1450
00:59:55,590 --> 00:59:53,680
skeptics committee he's a barrister and

1451
00:59:57,960 --> 00:59:55,600
he received notification today that

1452
01:00:01,950 --> 00:59:57,970
someone in his chambers has been

1453
01:00:03,930 --> 01:00:01,960
diagnosed and so a GP is coming to their

1454
01:00:07,380 --> 01:00:03,940
chambers on Friday to give everyone a

1455
01:00:10,140 --> 01:00:07,390
vaccination yeah this is in the centre

1456
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:10,150
of sydney by the way interesting

1457
01:00:15,570 --> 01:00:12,010
interesting all right now we will

1458
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:15,580
alluded to this earlier with what you've

1459
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:17,170
been saying attention members in guess

1460
01:00:20,850 --> 01:00:18,850
the next courtesy bus will be departing

1461
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:20,860
in five minutes time Oh going to

1462
01:00:26,010 --> 01:00:23,290
Canterbury ashbury ashfield Croydon

1463
01:00:28,110 --> 01:00:26,020
temper would the sun is shining in five

1464
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:28,120
minutes time thank you you know we had

1465
01:00:31,260 --> 01:00:29,410
to listen to talk to us the other day

1466
01:00:32,670 --> 01:00:31,270
and said they love the ting tactic the

1467
01:00:35,220 --> 01:00:32,680
think tank except when there's bus

1468
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:35,230
announcement

1469
01:00:39,270 --> 01:00:38,050
favorite oh I compared to somebody

1470
01:00:42,060 --> 01:00:39,280
thought we've dubbed in the bus

1471
01:00:44,490 --> 01:00:42,070
announced really sorry I got that all

1472
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:44,500
right yeah but as I was saying right

1473
01:00:47,460 --> 01:00:45,970
we've been we've been discussing for

1474
01:00:49,290 --> 01:00:47,470
last few weeks and you've been doing an

1475
01:00:50,849 --> 01:00:49,300
excellent job not only an ass to you of

1476
01:00:53,820 --> 01:00:50,859
course but on this show about talking

1477
01:00:56,070 --> 01:00:53,830
about the Australian vaccination network

1478
01:00:58,650 --> 01:00:56,080
which are a group dedicated to not

1479
01:01:00,359 --> 01:00:58,660
vaccinating as it happens there is an

1480
01:01:03,900 --> 01:01:00,369
online petition set up by one of our

1481
01:01:09,150 --> 01:01:03,910
friends and dave was saying just before

1482
01:01:10,770 --> 01:01:09,160
recording that he has comments oh yeah

1483
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:10,780
I'm reservations or worries about

1484
01:01:17,250 --> 01:01:12,730
warmuth's signing the petition as it's

1485
01:01:18,930 --> 01:01:17,260
worded mm-hmm because the petition is if

1486
01:01:22,530 --> 01:01:18,940
I've got this right sideline stop the

1487
01:01:23,790 --> 01:01:22,540
avian yeah and and and the gist is that

1488
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:23,800
the AVM shouldn't have a voice in

1489
01:01:29,220 --> 01:01:26,410
Australia and my position on free speech

1490
01:01:32,130 --> 01:01:29,230
is that free speech should be granted to

1491
01:01:34,349 --> 01:01:32,140
everyone including nutters and including

1492
01:01:38,910 --> 01:01:34,359
dangerous people because otherwise we

1493
01:01:40,500 --> 01:01:38,920
drive their opinions underground they

1494
01:01:43,550 --> 01:01:40,510
should be free to express their opinion

1495
01:01:46,950 --> 01:01:43,560
should be free to promote their cause

1496
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:46,960
and we should be just as free to say

1497
01:01:51,170 --> 01:01:49,290
that magic water and a Playboy Playmate

1498
01:01:55,020 --> 01:01:51,180
shouldn't be taking the place of

1499
01:01:57,660 --> 01:01:55,030
evidence-based science and we should be

1500
01:02:00,720 --> 01:01:57,670
rather than trying to shut them balance

1501
01:02:02,970 --> 01:02:00,730
them might not be a bit of voice we

1502
01:02:04,530 --> 01:02:02,980
should be a bit we you or I think we're

1503
01:02:06,990 --> 01:02:04,540
going to splendid job but I think we

1504
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:07,000
should you know we should be allowed a

1505
01:02:13,550 --> 01:02:08,650
voice I think the approach shouldn't be

1506
01:02:15,630 --> 01:02:13,560
trying to silence opponents it should be

1507
01:02:19,890 --> 01:02:15,640
putting the facts out there and saying

1508
01:02:21,420 --> 01:02:19,900
look this is this is ludicrous whilst I

1509
01:02:22,950 --> 01:02:21,430
don't disagree with you Dave on the fact

1510
01:02:26,820 --> 01:02:22,960
of free speech I think that you are

1511
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:26,830
taking the position a little bit too far

1512
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:29,410
in that sense and I agree with you that

1513
01:02:33,150 --> 01:02:31,330
it literally does say stop the avn but I

1514
01:02:36,180 --> 01:02:33,160
think Daniels intention whether it was

1515
01:02:38,190 --> 01:02:36,190
to educate people about the fact that

1516
01:02:39,870 --> 01:02:38,200
they do spread misinformation and

1517
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:39,880
blatant untruths about the safety of

1518
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:42,970
vaccines and by doing that that is

1519
01:02:46,890 --> 01:02:44,770
educating people and that way they will

1520
01:02:48,930 --> 01:02:46,900
sort of dry up in a sense because people

1521
01:02:50,940 --> 01:02:48,940
will no longer listen to them

1522
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:50,950
when they realize that all they're doing

1523
01:02:55,500 --> 01:02:53,050
is giving up misinformation that is

1524
01:02:56,609 --> 01:02:55,510
harming people so I don't think he

1525
01:02:58,589 --> 01:02:56,619
literally I agree with what you're

1526
01:02:59,670 --> 01:02:58,599
saying in that sense literally but I

1527
01:03:02,760 --> 01:02:59,680
think you also have to look at the

1528
01:03:04,410 --> 01:03:02,770
bigger picture so I personally wouldn't

1529
01:03:06,150 --> 01:03:04,420
not sign the petition for that reason

1530
01:03:07,559 --> 01:03:06,160
because it's not just about the way it's

1531
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:07,569
worded it's about the impact that

1532
01:03:12,300 --> 01:03:10,810
they're having on the community so if

1533
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:12,310
you think that that's the reason why

1534
01:03:16,170 --> 01:03:14,170
some people might not sign it then I'll

1535
01:03:18,510 --> 01:03:16,180
speak to Daniel and get him to change it

1536
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:18,520
to make it more about that rather than

1537
01:03:25,380 --> 01:03:22,000
you know don't give them a voice because

1538
01:03:28,829 --> 01:03:25,390
I knew agree with the sentiment you're

1539
01:03:31,079 --> 01:03:28,839
saying Dave actually cuz I never even

1540
01:03:32,609 --> 01:03:31,089
evil evil people deserve the same

1541
01:03:34,260 --> 01:03:32,619
freedom of speech that we do I've got

1542
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:34,270
opinions that big chunks of the

1543
01:03:38,809 --> 01:03:36,490
population would love to silence you

1544
01:03:43,079 --> 01:03:38,819
know my ID my opinions of religion a

1545
01:03:44,309 --> 01:03:43,089
ridiculously well publicized and there's

1546
01:03:46,470 --> 01:03:44,319
plenty people that it would just love to

1547
01:03:48,599 --> 01:03:46,480
shut me up it that's true yeah while I

1548
01:03:52,109 --> 01:03:48,609
sort of agree in the sentiment with with

1549
01:03:53,910 --> 01:03:52,119
Dave's Dave's argument am I think the

1550
01:03:55,650 --> 01:03:53,920
wheel to draw a line between the free

1551
01:03:57,359 --> 01:03:55,660
speech of individuals and the free

1552
01:03:59,970 --> 01:03:57,369
speech of this incorporated entity

1553
01:04:02,910 --> 01:03:59,980
called the AVM it's been incorporated ND

1554
01:04:04,849 --> 01:04:02,920
and we can take that incorporation away

1555
01:04:07,050 --> 01:04:04,859
we can dissolve that through legal means

1556
01:04:09,839 --> 01:04:07,060
that can be done and doesn't quash any

1557
01:04:11,819 --> 01:04:09,849
ones actual free speech individual so I

1558
01:04:13,109 --> 01:04:11,829
don't have a problem and that point I

1559
01:04:14,579 --> 01:04:13,119
think that's a really important issue as

1560
01:04:16,260 --> 01:04:14,589
whether the whole purpose of

1561
01:04:17,670 --> 01:04:16,270
corporations it was originally for

1562
01:04:21,270 --> 01:04:17,680
public good and if they're blatantly

1563
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:21,280
doing public misdeeds by misleading

1564
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:22,930
people and letting people to harm their

1565
01:04:26,579 --> 01:04:24,970
children then the corporation in

1566
01:04:27,450 --> 01:04:26,589
corporation has really taken away and

1567
01:04:28,950 --> 01:04:27,460
then the people can have their

1568
01:04:31,710 --> 01:04:28,960
individual say but it won't be as loud

1569
01:04:35,300 --> 01:04:31,720
it's almost like why is it up to us when

1570
01:04:38,910 --> 01:04:35,310
there should be some arm of government

1571
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:38,920
who have acted before down against these

1572
01:04:42,839 --> 01:04:40,450
people well that is currently happening

1573
01:04:46,500 --> 01:04:42,849
that is in the works right now there are

1574
01:04:49,290 --> 01:04:46,510
currently meetings with the government

1575
01:04:51,420 --> 01:04:49,300
and the McCaffrey family about the issue

1576
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:51,430
that led to Dana's death and that

1577
01:04:56,220 --> 01:04:54,490
includes not just Davion obviously we

1578
01:04:58,319 --> 01:04:56,230
can't say they were responsible for it

1579
01:05:00,059 --> 01:04:58,329
there was a huge breakdown yes in the

1580
01:05:00,819 --> 01:05:00,069
reporting system by the New South Wales

1581
01:05:02,769 --> 01:05:00,829
Government

1582
01:05:04,569 --> 01:05:02,779
yeah and they were the McCaffrey's were

1583
01:05:06,190 --> 01:05:04,579
not informed they were not informed that

1584
01:05:08,859 --> 01:05:06,200
there was an epidemic and so a lot of

1585
01:05:10,479 --> 01:05:08,869
factors there are other factors you yeah

1586
01:05:12,279 --> 01:05:10,489
on the free speech issue that the

1587
01:05:14,709 --> 01:05:12,289
problem is everybody should be a title

1588
01:05:16,449 --> 01:05:14,719
say what they think and i can say i

1589
01:05:18,729 --> 01:05:16,459
believe is a green unicorn the movement

1590
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:18,739
if I want but I people shouldn't be

1591
01:05:22,989 --> 01:05:20,450
allowed to present lies to the public so

1592
01:05:24,940 --> 01:05:22,999
in the avian say a thing like dr. Andrew

1593
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:24,950
Wakefield's paper has shown that MMR's

1594
01:05:29,109 --> 01:05:27,410
lead to autism the judge is a lie

1595
01:05:32,739 --> 01:05:29,119
because his paper was discredited these

1596
01:05:34,959 --> 01:05:32,749
fans were treated all these results that

1597
01:05:37,569 --> 01:05:34,969
is not really previous order to present

1598
01:05:39,940 --> 01:05:37,579
that to the public you can say oh I

1599
01:05:41,859 --> 01:05:39,950
believe that you know vaccines cause

1600
01:05:43,359 --> 01:05:41,869
autism that's the thing you can believe

1601
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:43,369
or one individual can believe in it

1602
01:05:46,539 --> 01:05:44,690
stops there when you say there is

1603
01:05:49,690 --> 01:05:46,549
scientific research but that is actually

1604
01:05:51,519 --> 01:05:49,700
a lie of the shows a little that we

1605
01:05:54,839 --> 01:05:51,529
shouldn't go to the public so you really

1606
01:05:57,819 --> 01:05:54,849
say it's a beaut of free speech or

1607
01:05:59,019 --> 01:05:57,829
misuse of eric's yeah yeah yeah this

1608
01:06:00,489 --> 01:05:59,029
thing is to probably something we have

1609
01:06:02,109 --> 01:06:00,499
to tolerate because we do value free

1610
01:06:03,609 --> 01:06:02,119
speaks very highly anything it will come

1611
01:06:05,289 --> 01:06:03,619
down on the side and I think it says so

1612
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:05,299
it should be allowed even despite the

1613
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:06,890
abuse and misuse I think it says

1614
01:06:10,180 --> 01:06:08,690
something too about the level of

1615
01:06:12,789 --> 01:06:10,190
scientific understanding in this country

1616
01:06:15,999 --> 01:06:12,799
where Meryl Dory can get on national TV

1617
01:06:18,910 --> 01:06:16,009
and you use this quote in the last

1618
01:06:21,189 --> 01:06:18,920
episode of the show it was a sound bite

1619
01:06:24,729 --> 01:06:21,199
from her her her own word saying that

1620
01:06:26,349 --> 01:06:24,739
her family had whooping cough and only

1621
01:06:27,910 --> 01:06:26,359
lasted two weeks and it was nothing

1622
01:06:31,209 --> 01:06:27,920
worse than just a bad cough and they

1623
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:31,219
treat it with homeopathy it off is a lot

1624
01:06:35,769 --> 01:06:33,650
more than just a bad cough and thus last

1625
01:06:38,410 --> 01:06:35,779
longer than sue and also for her to say

1626
01:06:40,420 --> 01:06:38,420
way they could to say that and not have

1627
01:06:43,059 --> 01:06:40,430
them all the population say what Doug

1628
01:06:44,769 --> 01:06:43,069
yeah and also in the same set and say we

1629
01:06:47,650 --> 01:06:44,779
treated it with homeopathy and the whole

1630
01:06:50,709 --> 01:06:47,660
population say okay the little rooms

1631
01:06:55,779 --> 01:06:50,719
here and it's padded I Richard but I

1632
01:06:57,549 --> 01:06:55,789
mean if a modest proposal if rather than

1633
01:06:59,799 --> 01:06:57,559
petitioning the government to shut

1634
01:07:01,689 --> 01:06:59,809
people down and silence people which

1635
01:07:03,189 --> 01:07:01,699
still makes me uneasy although I'll take

1636
01:07:08,380 --> 01:07:03,199
on board everything that you so Stephen

1637
01:07:10,900 --> 01:07:08,390
Rachel why don't we have a community

1638
01:07:12,620 --> 01:07:10,910
service announcement out there from from

1639
01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:12,630
the government saying

1640
01:07:17,180 --> 01:07:14,880
you know we understand there's a lot of

1641
01:07:19,220 --> 01:07:17,190
public controversy and a lot of public

1642
01:07:21,650 --> 01:07:19,230
mistrust regarding this the scientific

1643
01:07:23,180 --> 01:07:21,660
evidence is this this this that vaccines

1644
01:07:25,820 --> 01:07:23,190
are safe that by vaccinating the

1645
01:07:27,770 --> 01:07:25,830
population individuals who can't get the

1646
01:07:30,740 --> 01:07:27,780
vaccine are protected yeah yeah it was

1647
01:07:32,750 --> 01:07:30,750
cuz you know like that every day there's

1648
01:07:34,310 --> 01:07:32,760
tens even hundreds of them every day if

1649
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:34,320
the government was to put out a public

1650
01:07:40,090 --> 01:07:37,650
message like that it costs 10 probably a

1651
01:07:43,550 --> 01:07:40,100
hundred thousand dollars per messy I

1652
01:07:45,950 --> 01:07:43,560
agree with you but right when it's left

1653
01:07:50,390 --> 01:07:45,960
to the commercial networks like channel

1654
01:07:52,550 --> 01:07:50,400
7 to do this yeah I think that's a

1655
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:52,560
that's a fun idea but I want to make a

1656
01:07:57,680 --> 01:07:55,770
point with with you and that is that for

1657
01:07:59,510 --> 01:07:57,690
example it's illegal to go to the

1658
01:08:01,850 --> 01:07:59,520
mind-body-spirit festival and claim that

1659
01:08:03,950 --> 01:08:01,860
you can cure incurable diseases what now

1660
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:03,960
what's your stand on whether or not that

1661
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:05,970
is quashing people's free speech because

1662
01:08:09,950 --> 01:08:07,530
you can actually be reported and shut

1663
01:08:12,710 --> 01:08:09,960
down if you have a stand saying I can

1664
01:08:13,790 --> 01:08:12,720
cure cancer because that's a lie well

1665
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:13,800
that's right i mean how is that

1666
01:08:16,790 --> 01:08:15,450
different to saying that vaccines cause

1667
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:16,800
autism so don't get your kid back

1668
01:08:22,670 --> 01:08:19,410
tonight well the the the main body

1669
01:08:24,440 --> 01:08:22,680
wallet the the world are promoting a yet

1670
01:08:26,180 --> 01:08:24,450
they're promoting a product that there

1671
01:08:28,510 --> 01:08:26,190
are advertising goods or services for

1672
01:08:31,430 --> 01:08:28,520
sale hello that you know this the i

1673
01:08:33,860 --> 01:08:31,440
think yeah but we have authority on

1674
01:08:36,050 --> 01:08:33,870
therapeutic goods for sale we have we

1675
01:08:37,430 --> 01:08:36,060
have things in place to no no you don't

1676
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:37,440
we don't for homeopathy because there's

1677
01:08:41,270 --> 01:08:39,570
nothing in it well TGA no it's not

1678
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:41,280
listed with the TGA go missing any

1679
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:43,530
repute exactly yeah it doesn't exactly

1680
01:08:47,270 --> 01:08:46,050
it's not make claims yes but but these

1681
01:08:49,070 --> 01:08:47,280
people are selling things they're

1682
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:49,080
selling homeopathy reinterpret are

1683
01:08:53,750 --> 01:08:51,570
endorsing homeopathy snatcher passes

1684
01:08:55,460 --> 01:08:53,760
selling DVDs are selling folks there

1685
01:08:57,140 --> 01:08:55,470
true them if you know you're making a

1686
01:08:58,670 --> 01:08:57,150
lot of money out of it so whilst they're

1687
01:09:01,130 --> 01:08:58,680
not directly handing you a bottle of

1688
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:01,140
magic water and saying use this not this

1689
01:09:04,700 --> 01:09:03,210
product from a pharmaceutical they're

1690
01:09:06,500 --> 01:09:04,710
still selling stuff and it's not like I

1691
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:06,510
dispute that some of them would actually

1692
01:09:10,790 --> 01:09:08,730
directly do that what were the life

1693
01:09:12,230 --> 01:09:10,800
blood analysis people doing that yeah

1694
01:09:14,270 --> 01:09:12,240
but I'm talking specifically about the

1695
01:09:17,420 --> 01:09:14,280
anti-vaxxers okay okay they don't have a

1696
01:09:19,550 --> 01:09:17,430
stand that says they used to did that I

1697
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:19,560
sell things to be honest i don't know

1698
01:09:22,730 --> 01:09:21,090
but i've been there in the years passed

1699
01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:22,740
and there's been the australian

1700
01:09:24,890 --> 01:09:24,420
vaccination network right right yeah

1701
01:09:28,970 --> 01:09:24,900
okay

1702
01:09:31,939 --> 01:09:28,980
you mean the ante yeah I know but see

1703
01:09:33,769 --> 01:09:31,949
get out there and yeah tell your friends

1704
01:09:36,079 --> 01:09:33,779
if you're on if you're on Facebook and

1705
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:36,089
yes there's people who seem unsure

1706
01:09:41,180 --> 01:09:39,810
spender to spend a little time reading

1707
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:41,190
up a little bit about about the

1708
01:09:44,419 --> 01:09:42,810
background to this the more people will

1709
01:09:47,030 --> 01:09:44,429
actually know that the Australian

1710
01:09:50,780 --> 01:09:47,040
vaccination network exists I think the

1711
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:50,790
better hmm I hope the better I agree and

1712
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:52,650
also I've been since I've started this

1713
01:09:56,930 --> 01:09:54,570
campaign I've been spending a lot of

1714
01:09:58,910 --> 01:09:56,940
time on blogs so you know if people

1715
01:10:00,979 --> 01:09:58,920
comment on my blog or somebody else's

1716
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:00,989
blog and say we'll hang on I heard that

1717
01:10:07,010 --> 01:10:03,090
this well then I can go and say no the

1718
01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:07,020
evidence is this is anas ness and I've a

1719
01:10:10,820 --> 01:10:08,640
lot of people haven't been aware of the

1720
01:10:13,010 --> 01:10:10,830
lot of the things that I've said yeah I

1721
01:10:14,450 --> 01:10:13,020
mean they weren't previously aware for

1722
01:10:16,729 --> 01:10:14,460
example I bang on about how the

1723
01:10:18,530 --> 01:10:16,739
anti-vaxxers get still get paid to not

1724
01:10:20,930 --> 01:10:18,540
vaccinate yeah that's one of my bug

1725
01:10:22,459 --> 01:10:20,940
bears because they carry on about how

1726
01:10:24,140 --> 01:10:22,469
doctors get paid when they also get some

1727
01:10:25,580 --> 01:10:24,150
spirits who can spike lee i mean you

1728
01:10:27,470 --> 01:10:25,590
know who's taken who's on the tape from

1729
01:10:29,899 --> 01:10:27,480
the government they all are so come on

1730
01:10:31,970 --> 01:10:29,909
guys including you oh you mean why me

1731
01:10:33,830 --> 01:10:31,980
because you've been leaving some to the

1732
01:10:36,649 --> 01:10:33,840
campaign against oh yes that's right

1733
01:10:43,130 --> 01:10:36,659
about michelle yeoh emotion must be

1734
01:10:44,930 --> 01:10:43,140
without big farm tractor was it your

1735
01:10:46,459 --> 01:10:44,940
comment on the yes blog the other day

1736
01:10:50,990 --> 01:10:46,469
that said leave the farmers alone

1737
01:10:55,070 --> 01:10:51,000
they're going through a drought I wish

1738
01:10:57,590 --> 01:10:55,080
it was but it wasn't your I I

1739
01:11:02,300 --> 01:10:57,600
travel we're doing the big bummer it

1740
01:11:06,620 --> 01:11:02,310
turns into a pirate just start with you

1741
01:11:10,820 --> 01:11:06,630
pirate be farmer i ha and then just

1742
01:11:12,979 --> 01:11:10,830
stick a piece of straw chewy and if you

1743
01:11:15,140 --> 01:11:12,989
see a crow circle three times in a

1744
01:11:24,470 --> 01:11:15,150
clockwise direction and it's gonna be

1745
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:24,480
rain by noon I think big pharma maybe we

1746
01:11:27,229 --> 01:11:25,770
should bring the big farm maybe the big

1747
01:11:28,430 --> 01:11:27,239
pharma should have a segment these shoes

1748
01:11:32,540 --> 01:11:28,440
get yeah yeah

1749
01:11:40,300 --> 01:11:32,550
I'm the big cosmic farmer here oh this

1750
01:11:46,189 --> 01:11:43,640
what were you gonna say I can say if the

1751
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:46,199
government's got funds to pay parents

1752
01:11:49,580 --> 01:11:47,520
who vaccinate their children and it's

1753
01:11:52,490 --> 01:11:49,590
got funds to pay doctors to vaccinate

1754
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:52,500
children then perhaps it can put some of

1755
01:11:56,510 --> 01:11:54,690
those funds towards public service

1756
01:11:58,430 --> 01:11:56,520
announcements oh you know what I do care

1757
01:11:59,930 --> 01:11:58,440
well yeah it's in the nature of

1758
01:12:01,430 --> 01:11:59,940
government be reactive rather than

1759
01:12:02,990 --> 01:12:01,440
proactive but they love giving money to

1760
01:12:04,820 --> 01:12:03,000
go when we show enough eventually

1761
01:12:06,410 --> 01:12:04,830
they'll get around to an out I bet all

1762
01:12:08,510 --> 01:12:06,420
of you are you that too young to

1763
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:08,520
remember this maybe Steve you remember I

1764
01:12:15,410 --> 01:12:13,170
don't know well for 17 I do remember I

1765
01:12:17,900 --> 01:12:15,420
almost certain young travelers in the

1766
01:12:20,270 --> 01:12:17,910
early 80s or maybe the very late 74

1767
01:12:22,189 --> 01:12:20,280
definitely the early 80s there was a

1768
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:22,199
campaign probably sponsored by the

1769
01:12:28,070 --> 01:12:23,930
Australian Government to vaccinate kids

1770
01:12:30,050 --> 01:12:28,080
using c-3po and r2d2 does anybody

1771
01:12:32,810 --> 01:12:30,060
remember no no no no is she is going by

1772
01:12:34,130 --> 01:12:32,820
medical professionals for this yeah but

1773
01:12:35,420 --> 01:12:34,140
I'm gonna be wishing that doesn't

1774
01:12:42,709 --> 01:12:35,430
younger arms he's going to miss the

1775
01:12:45,740 --> 01:12:42,719
vague idea but they had already old by

1776
01:12:48,260 --> 01:12:45,750
that now maybe listeners who remember

1777
01:12:49,580 --> 01:12:48,270
please great and support my memory no

1778
01:12:51,380 --> 01:12:49,590
you need to find it on youtube in the

1779
01:13:02,270 --> 01:12:51,390
players yeah well yeah yeah and the

1780
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:02,280
audios me up now 10pcs TV you can't

1781
01:13:06,709 --> 01:13:05,010
possibly getting green coffee Joey's

1782
01:13:10,430 --> 01:13:06,719
don't get diseases like whooping cough

1783
01:13:12,979 --> 01:13:10,440
all measles or polio operation our

1784
01:13:15,140 --> 01:13:12,989
children to a young child gets whooping

1785
01:13:20,180 --> 01:13:15,150
cough it can lead to pneumonia brain

1786
01:13:22,310 --> 01:13:20,190
damage even death what you need is a

1787
01:13:25,340 --> 01:13:22,320
little rewiring a children need to be

1788
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:25,350
fully immunized and the rest so many are

1789
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:27,290
not watch

1790
01:13:32,590 --> 01:13:30,530
oh right are two I'll ask them parents

1791
01:13:34,090 --> 01:13:32,600
of Earth aren't your children clearly in

1792
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:34,100
your life against childhood diseases

1793
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:36,410
cause your doctor or local health

1794
01:13:41,500 --> 01:13:38,930
department and find out immunize your

1795
01:13:46,690 --> 01:13:41,510
children peace and may the force be with

1796
01:13:48,730 --> 01:13:46,700
you send for the parents guide to

1797
01:13:52,300 --> 01:13:48,740
childhood immunization it's yours free

1798
01:13:55,390 --> 01:13:52,310
right immunization pueblo colorado 8 10

1799
01:14:01,150 --> 01:13:55,400
9 you see I was right all the time oh

1800
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:01,160
why did I ever doubt it but and also I

1801
01:14:06,670 --> 01:14:04,130
know sir roger moore from the years was

1802
01:14:09,370 --> 01:14:06,680
a campaigner for vaccination Rachel via

1803
01:14:13,540 --> 01:14:09,380
another story yeah I was going to

1804
01:14:16,480 --> 01:14:13,550
mention um I got the Simon Singh BCA

1805
01:14:19,510 --> 01:14:16,490
case most of us know about that here

1806
01:14:23,470 --> 01:14:19,520
don't we oh yes yeah so it's not good

1807
01:14:25,030 --> 01:14:23,480
news unfortunately as some of you may

1808
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:25,040
have read I'm actually reading off Jack

1809
01:14:29,980 --> 01:14:27,410
of Kent's blog thanks Jack of Kent he's

1810
01:14:31,510 --> 01:14:29,990
written a very thorough rundown of what

1811
01:14:35,260 --> 01:14:31,520
happened to Jackie is actually a lawyer

1812
01:14:37,870 --> 01:14:35,270
in the UK and he blogs at jacket Kent

1813
01:14:40,540 --> 01:14:37,880
and he went to the proceedings but the

1814
01:14:42,670 --> 01:14:40,550
problem is that as some of you know

1815
01:14:45,370 --> 01:14:42,680
Simon was sued by the British

1816
01:14:49,030 --> 01:14:45,380
Chiropractic Association for saying that

1817
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:49,040
some of their claims were bogus well

1818
01:14:53,410 --> 01:14:51,290
there's that word yeah he says this

1819
01:14:55,270 --> 01:14:53,420
organization is the respectable face of

1820
01:14:58,030 --> 01:14:55,280
the chiropractic profession and yet it

1821
01:14:59,590 --> 01:14:58,040
happily promotes bogus treatments now

1822
01:15:02,530 --> 01:14:59,600
the problem was in the preliminary

1823
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:02,540
hearing the judge decided that he would

1824
01:15:11,590 --> 01:15:07,730
define the word bogus and his definition

1825
01:15:14,620 --> 01:15:11,600
was that they had deliberately the BCA

1826
01:15:19,050 --> 01:15:14,630
were deliberately deceiving people bc o

1827
01:15:23,710 --> 01:15:21,160
yeah they were being consciously

1828
01:15:26,440 --> 01:15:23,720
dishonest in promoting chiropractic for

1829
01:15:27,940 --> 01:15:26,450
those children's ailments which Simon

1830
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:27,950
claimed that they couldn't help treat

1831
01:15:32,590 --> 01:15:30,050
and those are things like colic sleeping

1832
01:15:35,770 --> 01:15:32,600
feeding problems frequent ear infections

1833
01:15:38,410 --> 01:15:35,780
asthma reinvention prolonged crying yeah

1834
01:15:41,810 --> 01:15:38,420
that's me yeah

1835
01:15:45,260 --> 01:15:41,820
so the situation now is that Simon has

1836
01:15:48,169 --> 01:15:45,270
to demonstrate with his legal team that

1837
01:15:51,649 --> 01:15:48,179
they consciously were dishonest about

1838
01:15:54,110 --> 01:15:51,659
their claims I don't see how them being

1839
01:15:55,490 --> 01:15:54,120
conscious of the velocity of their

1840
01:15:58,340 --> 01:15:55,500
claims makes any difference the

1841
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:58,350
definition would I agree I agree not the

1842
01:16:01,910 --> 01:16:00,239
worse than that it can still be bogus

1843
01:16:03,500 --> 01:16:01,920
even if you think it's not doesn't it

1844
01:16:05,209 --> 01:16:03,510
happy the dictionary definition how can

1845
01:16:06,790 --> 01:16:05,219
a judge just make up a definition so

1846
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:06,800
just selective it so that's what it is

1847
01:16:12,430 --> 01:16:10,170
well I take not nary but it's missing

1848
01:16:14,419 --> 01:16:12,440
the point whether they're consciously

1849
01:16:15,830 --> 01:16:14,429
knowing they're doing the wrong thing or

1850
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:15,840
not they're still doing the bloody wrong

1851
01:16:20,870 --> 01:16:17,850
thing but it's it's a libel action on it

1852
01:16:22,430 --> 01:16:20,880
depends on on the words that he used in

1853
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:22,440
his piece and if it judge decides that

1854
01:16:27,979 --> 01:16:26,010
the that the meaning of clovis is that

1855
01:16:29,870 --> 01:16:27,989
they were deliberately lying rather than

1856
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:29,880
just but that's not mean it

1857
01:16:35,649 --> 01:16:31,890
unintentionally providing something

1858
01:16:37,820 --> 01:16:35,659
ineffective you're right you're I mean I

1859
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:37,830
but only I don't agree with the judge

1860
01:16:43,550 --> 01:16:41,610
but so so they've to the judge if I

1861
01:16:45,770 --> 01:16:43,560
throw from what I saw there the judge

1862
01:16:49,370 --> 01:16:45,780
agrees that their treatments don't work

1863
01:16:51,590 --> 01:16:49,380
for these conditions but that's a fact

1864
01:16:53,450 --> 01:16:51,600
he said somewhere in there that it's a

1865
01:16:55,250 --> 01:16:53,460
fact but it's not about the facts it's

1866
01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:55,260
about what whether or not they were

1867
01:17:00,890 --> 01:16:57,840
deliberately defrauding people yeah yeah

1868
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:00,900
so if the judge is saying in this that

1869
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:04,170
sorry the judge'll degrees last of all

1870
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:05,850
yet he's establishing whether the

1871
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:08,610
harvesting is libel the BCA and he's

1872
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:10,770
saying Simon seeing have said the BCA

1873
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:14,370
are cynically foisting treatments on the

1874
01:17:18,229 --> 01:17:15,690
public that they know are no good

1875
01:17:20,930 --> 01:17:18,239
because of just you just don't

1876
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:20,940
definition actually neither the BCA nor

1877
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:24,210
Simon is seeing intend to that by the

1878
01:17:28,310 --> 01:17:26,730
word bogus i mean the BCA are probably

1879
01:17:30,709 --> 01:17:28,320
see the cereal and sincerely believe

1880
01:17:32,419 --> 01:17:30,719
they're doing valid treatment yeah and

1881
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:32,429
the issue that Simon Singh has is this

1882
01:17:35,930 --> 01:17:34,290
treatment is actually not valid but

1883
01:17:39,020 --> 01:17:35,940
without casting any reflection on the

1884
01:17:40,459 --> 01:17:39,030
character of the BCA but the judge has

1885
01:17:42,709 --> 01:17:40,469
tons down and say they read the BCS

1886
01:17:44,149 --> 01:17:42,719
cynically manipulating people though it

1887
01:17:46,340 --> 01:17:44,159
was endemic never the issue and that was

1888
01:17:49,700 --> 01:17:46,350
never Simon that was never the BCA's

1889
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:49,710
accusation either yeah and so the

1890
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:51,730
situation now is that Simon is

1891
01:17:57,540 --> 01:17:54,010
well how do we said in this country

1892
01:18:00,630 --> 01:17:57,550
appealing stuffed without a public yeah

1893
01:18:03,630 --> 01:18:00,640
without a paddle he can appeal according

1894
01:18:05,610 --> 01:18:03,640
to Jack he found him very appealing well

1895
01:18:10,440 --> 01:18:05,620
yeah he's a lovely guy let's go he can

1896
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:10,450
settle he can appeal but jack says it

1897
01:18:16,620 --> 01:18:15,250
he's unlikely to do this because it he

1898
01:18:19,470 --> 01:18:16,630
says that it's unlikely that he will

1899
01:18:21,930 --> 01:18:19,480
succeed hardly any guarantee of success

1900
01:18:24,500 --> 01:18:21,940
and further defeats may entrench and

1901
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:24,510
embolden the BCA's apparent victory so

1902
01:18:28,020 --> 01:18:26,650
Jack doesn't think that's a good know

1903
01:18:30,750 --> 01:18:28,030
where can people go to find out more

1904
01:18:33,180 --> 01:18:30,760
Rachel well you can go to Jack of Kent

1905
01:18:35,850 --> 01:18:33,190
to search him on the Internet that's his

1906
01:18:37,979 --> 01:18:35,860
blog he's doing updates all the time he

1907
01:18:39,810 --> 01:18:37,989
went to the court case and in fact so

1908
01:18:41,820 --> 01:18:39,820
he's because he's got a legal background

1909
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:41,830
he knows the libel laws in the UK and

1910
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:43,770
Dave I haven't got a bloody clue and

1911
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:46,930
what's with you lot and will defamation

1912
01:18:53,580 --> 01:18:50,770
laws under tricky yeah and there's a lot

1913
01:18:55,229 --> 01:18:53,590
of money spent on lawyers however lot of

1914
01:18:56,700 --> 01:18:55,239
money spent on lies but I was trying to

1915
01:18:58,650 --> 01:18:56,710
say that the bed and burden of proof is

1916
01:19:01,190 --> 01:18:58,660
kind of slanted over to one side and I

1917
01:19:04,650 --> 01:19:01,200
know it's difficult to to actually

1918
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:04,660
disprove libel if you like so Simon's

1919
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:06,970
kind of falling victim to the British

1920
01:19:12,210 --> 01:19:09,850
legal system which needs reform so it's

1921
01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:12,220
different to in this country where the

1922
01:19:16,410 --> 01:19:14,170
act the accuser has to demonstrate their

1923
01:19:19,290 --> 01:19:16,420
case rather than the person who's being

1924
01:19:21,870 --> 01:19:19,300
accused be honest I don't know yeah well

1925
01:19:25,590 --> 01:19:21,880
in this country you you don't have to

1926
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:25,600
prove that you weren't it's different it

1927
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:28,090
just sounded like the the real issue

1928
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:32,170
here that the in efficacy of the

1929
01:19:37,140 --> 01:19:33,850
chiropractic treatments and Simon's

1930
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:37,150
reporting on it seems to be completely

1931
01:19:41,490 --> 01:19:39,010
tumbling by the wayside based on a

1932
01:19:43,350 --> 01:19:41,500
semantic new one exactly regarding the

1933
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:43,360
web bogus particular judges

1934
01:19:48,030 --> 01:19:45,370
interpretation of it which is I'm sure

1935
01:19:49,979 --> 01:19:48,040
what the BCA inside Nene dena'ina the

1936
01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:49,989
BCA North Simon you know what I think

1937
01:19:54,540 --> 01:19:53,170
they totally bogus what do you want to

1938
01:19:57,450 --> 01:19:54,550
tell our listeners something before you

1939
01:20:00,660 --> 01:19:57,460
go with you yes I just need did you want

1940
01:20:02,490 --> 01:20:00,670
to tell them about your knees yes I do d

1941
01:20:02,970 --> 01:20:02,500
want to tell them about you getting on a

1942
01:20:07,950 --> 01:20:02,980
plane

1943
01:20:10,710 --> 01:20:07,960
oh yes do you know what I'm talking

1944
01:20:14,580 --> 01:20:10,720
about now I do now thank you everyone

1945
01:20:16,620 --> 01:20:14,590
God friends who are coming to tam 7

1946
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:16,630
please come and say hello I shall be

1947
01:20:19,950 --> 01:20:17,770
there and I'll look forward to meeting

1948
01:20:21,540 --> 01:20:19,960
you after teasing us all for months and

1949
01:20:23,550 --> 01:20:21,550
months and months is finally booked a

1950
01:20:26,820 --> 01:20:23,560
ticket today I couldn't resist I just

1951
01:20:28,950 --> 01:20:26,830
know that I everyone's I mean I've been

1952
01:20:31,650 --> 01:20:28,960
there myself it's just incredibly

1953
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:31,660
fantastically unbelievably good and I

1954
01:20:35,729 --> 01:20:33,130
thought of stuff and I don't care how

1955
01:20:37,650 --> 01:20:35,739
much it costs of Gog's I'm going can you

1956
01:20:41,010 --> 01:20:37,660
say hello to everyone for me please yes

1957
01:20:44,580 --> 01:20:41,020
all Rachel's no ego and me till next

1958
01:20:46,260 --> 01:20:44,590
year so let me see us a mate yes no I

1959
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:46,270
don't tell them to good tone to come to

1960
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:49,570
straighten Australia alright so those of

1961
01:20:52,830 --> 01:20:50,890
us who can't afford to fly halfway

1962
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:52,840
around the world well yes well won't be

1963
01:20:58,920 --> 01:20:55,570
exactly chemistry but in 2010 into the

1964
01:21:02,340 --> 01:20:58,930
SGU again you cast never had maybe not

1965
01:21:04,820 --> 01:21:02,350
maybe the friend Phil place you can I

1966
01:21:07,410 --> 01:21:04,830
wear them if you fancy a jewel an

1967
01:21:10,020 --> 01:21:07,420
inspection convention will be held in

1968
01:21:11,910 --> 01:21:10,030
Melbourne in 2010 so you might be able

1969
01:21:13,710 --> 01:21:11,920
to get whole whatever means speaking of

1970
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:13,720
all events in Melbourne yeah come and

1971
01:21:16,970 --> 01:21:15,130
see as if you can't afford to go to town

1972
01:21:20,340 --> 01:21:16,980
come and see us in melbourne next month

1973
01:21:22,950 --> 01:21:20,350
yeah this month end of it oh yeah this

1974
01:21:25,460 --> 01:21:22,960
month see hey come on the May thirtieth

1975
01:21:30,510 --> 01:21:25,470
of Melbourne Uni and to round off this

1976
01:21:33,570 --> 01:21:30,520
today so happy singer com I don't

1977
01:21:37,470 --> 01:21:33,580
believe in astrology aquarius italian so

1978
01:21:39,300 --> 01:21:37,480
I'd like to think all our guests and and

1979
01:21:41,370 --> 01:21:39,310
Regulus for coming tonight until I want

1980
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:41,380
to go round the table everybody give

1981
01:21:45,990 --> 01:21:42,970
their Twitter damn because we love

1982
01:21:48,870 --> 01:21:46,000
Twitter Rachel ah Rachel Dunlop mmm

1983
01:21:52,530 --> 01:21:48,880
Steve sorry but it's got an A in it Ric

1984
01:21:56,970 --> 01:21:52,540
hie jail my channel a rattail Steve

1985
01:21:58,320 --> 01:21:56,980
Boros stve wado hmm never got a

1986
01:22:01,260 --> 01:21:58,330
dual-core devil and she's called in

1987
01:22:05,620 --> 01:22:01,270
water by a friends like Eduardo the 10

1988
01:22:11,290 --> 01:22:07,840
Master Chief what's yours oh I seven

1989
01:22:17,620 --> 01:22:11,300
there you go there you go mine is mine

1990
01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:17,630
is happy singer h AP p y SI n GE oh okay

1991
01:22:21,370 --> 01:22:19,370
and it's an interesting story behind I'm

1992
01:22:23,350 --> 01:22:21,380
a singer and I'm sure anyway and yes I

1993
01:22:28,479 --> 01:22:23,360
did white sweater name is drunken madman

1994
01:22:31,149 --> 01:22:28,489
which is quite factual and I'm Ian wolf

1995
01:22:33,879 --> 01:22:31,159
with to pose and of course I'm just

1996
01:22:35,410 --> 01:22:33,889
skeptics own there you go thank you

1997
01:22:37,030 --> 01:22:35,420
everybody for joining us tonight in the

1998
01:23:14,010 --> 01:22:37,040
think tank that's going to be fun to

1999
01:23:19,330 --> 01:23:16,590
hey Richard how's your arm feeling ah

2000
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:19,340
that's okay not too bad it's okay to a

2001
01:23:24,730 --> 01:23:22,370
whooping cough shot I did yeah ananta

2002
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:24,740
man inspire she was it a scrape or a jab

2003
01:23:29,110 --> 01:23:26,690
it was a job it was a jam and we like to

2004
01:23:30,940 --> 01:23:29,120
say an injection I mean check just jab

2005
01:23:33,820 --> 01:23:30,950
is the word used by the anti-vaccination

2006
01:23:36,550 --> 01:23:33,830
crowd I like this violent violent

2007
01:23:38,620 --> 01:23:36,560
jamshed by the doctor and you get some

2008
01:23:41,740 --> 01:23:38,630
horrible thing you know it was nice and

2009
01:23:43,780 --> 01:23:41,750
simple that hardly felt a thing so the

2010
01:23:44,860 --> 01:23:43,790
word is people if you're an adult and

2011
01:23:48,460 --> 01:23:44,870
especially if you're going to be around

2012
01:23:49,660 --> 01:23:48,470
kids I'm go pink off gusta hit two home

2013
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:49,670
to your doctor and get a booster shot

2014
01:23:53,110 --> 01:23:51,170
for whooping cough because it is a

2015
01:23:55,470 --> 01:23:53,120
deadly disease or at least find out

2016
01:23:57,790 --> 01:23:55,480
where what your status e and all of your

2017
01:23:59,620 --> 01:23:57,800
vaccinations absolutely not travel

2018
01:24:01,530 --> 01:23:59,630
overseas and they did check everything

2019
01:24:04,060 --> 01:24:01,540
and make sure you would do it gave me a

2020
01:24:06,610 --> 01:24:04,070
falcon oh I went to Hong Kong to get the

2021
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:06,620
Hong Kong flu as an experiment of course

2022
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:09,170
didn't happen so but but yeah I was open

2023
01:24:13,450 --> 01:24:10,970
to it yeah just for your own experience

2024
01:24:16,060 --> 01:24:13,460
but besides that I went to Thailand

2025
01:24:17,830 --> 01:24:16,070
couple years ago oh yeah and they they

2026
01:24:19,060 --> 01:24:17,840
check me out and I got the vaccinations

2027
01:24:21,550 --> 01:24:19,070
I feel quite comfortable about it

2028
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:21,560
absolutely in fact I went to India about

2029
01:24:25,510 --> 01:24:23,810
five years back min had shots before I

2030
01:24:28,570 --> 01:24:25,520
went to India and strangely enough I

2031
01:24:30,580 --> 01:24:28,580
didn't fall over dead or I look at that

2032
01:24:33,250 --> 01:24:30,590
slumdog show you have you've been as

2033
01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:33,260
many shots as you can get and say so yes

2034
01:24:37,690 --> 01:24:35,330
that's that's almost the show that's

2035
01:24:39,700 --> 01:24:37,700
almost a show now listeners might be

2036
01:24:43,060 --> 01:24:39,710
interested to go on to the net and type

2037
01:24:44,950 --> 01:24:43,070
in Google Jenny McCarthy video no Jenny

2038
01:24:46,870 --> 01:24:44,960
McCarthy is the Playboy actress now the

2039
01:24:49,570 --> 01:24:46,880
anti-vaccination campaigner she's put

2040
01:24:51,310 --> 01:24:49,580
out a video giving her thoughts about

2041
01:24:53,860 --> 01:24:51,320
vaccinations and it's almost like the

2042
01:24:56,580 --> 01:24:53,870
onion did it it's almost be so bad to

2043
01:24:59,170 --> 01:24:56,590
send up and I've just been told by Kylie

2044
01:25:01,150 --> 01:24:59,180
Sturgis our reporter that the ammeter

2045
01:25:02,770 --> 01:25:01,160
science podcast if you google Emma to

2046
01:25:04,750 --> 01:25:02,780
science podcasts have done ascend up

2047
01:25:07,420 --> 01:25:04,760
that or or a reply or something we're

2048
01:25:09,310 --> 01:25:07,430
looking at the Oasis I love the old

2049
01:25:11,550 --> 01:25:09,320
parodies than the irony it's always

2050
01:25:15,540 --> 01:25:11,560
speaking of parodies and irony oh yes

2051
01:25:18,220 --> 01:25:15,550
you were on our national television no

2052
01:25:20,350 --> 01:25:18,230
just the other night just yet just last

2053
01:25:21,790 --> 01:25:20,360
night actually if your youtube vid have

2054
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:21,800
been a fun with YouTube video and our

2055
01:25:25,810 --> 01:25:22,489
lovely

2056
01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:25,820
national ABC TV network they put it on

2057
01:25:30,279 --> 01:25:27,170
at the front of the show they did what's

2058
01:25:33,879 --> 01:25:30,289
the name of that video it's Wayne Swan

2059
01:25:35,799 --> 01:25:33,889
kevin rudd d-day budget world war two

2060
01:25:39,009 --> 01:25:35,809
newsreel that's why it's called Wayne

2061
01:25:41,020 --> 01:25:39,019
Swan kevin rudd so yeah check out what

2062
01:25:43,810 --> 01:25:41,030
will save time if you go to youtube just

2063
01:25:50,169 --> 01:25:43,820
you look at Stefan's channel it's

2064
01:25:52,209 --> 01:25:50,179
serious 01 and that's Cyr I us 0 1 0 it

2065
01:25:54,339 --> 01:25:52,219
out check it out it's a lot of fun

2066
01:25:56,049 --> 01:25:54,349
anyway but hey this is even more fun in

2067
01:25:57,669 --> 01:25:56,059
the zone thanks for listening everyone

2068
01:25:58,899 --> 01:25:57,679
and thanks for the good numbers we've

2069
01:26:01,899 --> 01:25:58,909
been getting excellent numbers ever

2070
01:26:03,489 --> 01:26:01,909
since last really four episodes have

2071
01:26:05,470 --> 01:26:03,499
gone up and I'm like thank you we've had

2072
01:26:08,620 --> 01:26:05,480
Tim mentioned you mentioned she has fry

2073
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:08,630
fry it's what celebrity backed it's all

2074
01:26:12,100 --> 01:26:10,610
happening yes this is the skeptic zone

2075
01:26:17,229 --> 01:26:12,110
we'll see you next week Richard by now

2076
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:17,239
see ya you've been listening to the

2077
01:26:24,759 --> 01:26:21,530
skeptic zone visit our website at wwc a

2078
01:26:28,170 --> 01:26:24,769
petting zoo TV for comments contacts and

2079
01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:28,180
extra video reports